Early Termination crisis inbound?

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Got told this week that your Personal Objectives need to be laid on how they affect the service and how it benefits it, not you. Personal Objectives

JUMP THAT HOOP STICKY :-D!!! You will find NEXT YEAR it will be your PERSONAL OBJECTIVES....AGAIN!!! Re-invent that wheel. That will be a £250/hour consultancy fee please for that gem of advice :-D!!!! ...................... [CUE CIRCUS TUNE].....

 

[Cat Techie]

I fooking hated the blokes that turned down promotion then got the promotion without moving two years later, sometimes without moving from their bloody Squadrons. Was loads of them at Colt. Bet it was the same everywhere else. Try that in Civvy street. You get the boot if you don't want to move in the main. The real world.

 

[Downsizer]

Got told this week that your Personal Objectives need to be laid on how they affect the service and how it benefits it, not you. Personal Objectives

Told by whom?

 

[Dan_Brown]

There's some bitter people here!

Turned down promotion twice because it would mean a physical move away from the family and out of a role/stream which i was enjoying and gives me the courses and experience to set me up for outside the blue suit.

Why on earth can people be angry over that? Is it jealousy? Some of us don't bite to the dangling carrot of promotion and for some it isn't all about climbing the greasy pole as fast as possible.

Bosses are happy as they have an SME and i make their lives much easier and i'm happy as i get to do a job i enjoy and to come home on an evening.

I took promotion the 3rd time as it suited, but i'm not chasing and i'm not going to burn myself out. The military as a whole have had their pound of flesh out of me and my family. I'm still around because it suits, when it doesn't, i'm gone.

 

[Oldstacker]

A full service career can impose a huge strain on an individual's family and can have impacts years down the line on the career prospects of spouses and children whose education has been disrupted. That may have been manageable in the past when there were also benefits to families to counteract the downsides. The world has moved on, spouses have careers of their own, moving families from area to area and children from school to school or separated service is no longer offset by the once upon a time perks of family medical care, families days and close communities.
If someone is in a post where they are happy, their family is settled and life is good then why should they move without much better incentives than I currently see offered?

 

[ERT]

Years ago, you could probably leave the services after 22 years, and buy a house with your "lump sum". You could ride the rollercoaster of moves, knowing that when that 22 year point came, you could buy "back home".

However now, it isn't that way. The pension hasn't increased with the rate of housing, and now its "key" that you put roots down at the first opportunity. Getting a mortgage at aged 45, with a £40k lump sum, working for £30k a year, with a £14k a year pension isn't going to set you up well, when the average house is now £200k+. Good luck with that 20-25 year £160k+ mortgage!

The services promote housing, FHTB and all that Jazz, so when promotion offers a "move", a move away and "Living in the mess/block", becoming a "weekend warrior", then everyone has the right to turn promotion down.

Promotion and a move, living in the block/mess, getting GYH(M) is all a negative ~ stay in rank, in role and be happy... its just not worth the hassle. Let those who are single, divorced or child-less, dance to the tune of the promotion lottery.

 

[Talk Wrench]

The services promote housing, FHTB and all that Jazz, so when promotion offers a "move", a move away and "Living in the mess/block", becoming a "weekend warrior", then everyone has the right to turn promotion down.

I'd like to suggest that FHTB scheme, taken up by many a young and savvy Aviatior is also fuelling / has fuelled a rise in ET's.

Set up home, start paying things down and when the offer of assignment, either with or without promotion pops up, meaning you can no longer live in said home, it's mouse clicking time to get the hell out of a blue suit.

 

[busby1971]

However now, it isn't that way. The pension hasn't increased with the rate of housing, and now its "key" that you put roots down at the first opportunity. Getting a mortgage at aged 45, with a £40k lump sum, working for £30k a year, with a £14k a year pension isn't going to set you up well, when the average house is now £200k+. Good luck with that 20-25 year £160k+ mortgage!

I put roots down with 10 years to go, then extended when I got a nicer house in a nicer area to increase employment prospects, so best laid plans can always change, so I’ve still got a dozen years left.

I’d see 30k as a minimum for the typical RAF service leaver with room to grow quite quickly thereafter, theres also a good chance that your partner has an income and if your were stupid when younger your kids will be starting to be independent about now as well, a household income of about £5k in your hand should make a £200k mortgage affordable, even if you havent managed to save a few bob whilst in.

Before I left and in my first couple of jobs I was worried about the lack security compared to what the RAF gave me, looking back it couldnt be further from the truth.

My one tip, stretch to buy a house where there are lots of good employers within a reasonable commuting distance, then you wont have to worry too much about the future, rather than buy a cheaper house where good jobs are harder to come across.

 

[Spearmint]

My one tip, stretch to buy a house where there are lots of good employers within a reasonable commuting distance, then you wont have to worry too much about the future, rather than buy a cheaper house where good jobs are harder to come across.

Exactly why my family and I live now (with plenty of employment at the wifes level and loads of defence work for me) and not where she wanted to move back to. Best employment in that area would have been the assembly line at a cereal factory.

**** that.

 

[StickyFingers]

Told by whom?

Mate came back from his post "SJAR failure, what did I do wrong?" PSF career manager chat. Obvs I didn't have one because my career ended years ago.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Mate came back from his post "SJAR failure, what did I do wrong?" PSF career manager chat. Obvs I didn't have one because my career ended years ago.

What's a Care....caree.......CAREER??!! That's it..that's the word! What is that in the RAF for an Ex-TG 3 with certain 'Q's??? :- D

 

[Tin basher]

What's a Care....caree.......CAREER??!! That's it..that's the word!

To career - Fall rapidly downhill in an uncontrolled manner. "He went careering to the bottom"

 

[Cat Techie]

To obtain a higher place in the world? Did you try?

 

[muttywhitedog]

A full service career can impose a huge strain on an individual's family and can have impacts years down the line on the career prospects of spouses and children whose education has been disrupted. That may have been manageable in the past when there were also benefits to families to counteract the downsides. The world has moved on, spouses have careers of their own, moving families from area to area and children from school to school or separated service is no longer offset by the once upon a time perks of family medical care, families days and close communities.
If someone is in a post where they are happy, their family is settled and life is good then why should they move without much better incentives than I currently see offered?

I saw a linkedin post the other day about a female WO who was retiring after over 35 years. Her future job was a 5 year FTRS contract.

40+ years in the mob, and all I could think is "why".

 

[Stevienics]

The key to a happy service career, as it is in any career, is to only offer the employer what you are contracted to offer. Anything else has a value and comes extra , as it's very likely you are not the one who is going to realise the rewards from making that effort.

 

[spanners]

I saw a linkedin post the other day about a female WO who was retiring after over 35 years. Her future job was a 5 year FTRS contract.

40+ years in the mob, and all I could think is "why".

I saw that and thought the same, there is more to life than the RAF.... honest

 

[ady eflog]

I understand that not wanting promotion and keeping people in post for many years aids stability and keeps experience. It also harbours the "we've always done it that way" mentality. There is a need for both thought processes.

If SMART equals doing the same easy job for years then count me out, where's the challenge/ personal growth? Try something new you never know where it may lead.

If you know how to play the promotion game then you have accelerated your way to a better pension under the new career average scheme. So those that get promoted early are likely to be having a better retirement with more cash in their pockets.

Ive done 32 years, 3 years to go, i don't need a challenge or personal growth, well apart from milking IEng for another £3000 out of the RAF, ive played the promotion game to reach chief and im on a FS pension so why try harder? my lump sum goes up £3000 every year I do and the pension £1000 a year, on the 05/15 pension I'm getting £140k in the 2 lumps and a £30k pension, i'll leave after 35 years happy. Ive moved around and done shit jobs so its not like ive blocked a job for anyone, Let the ball fondling thrusters take promotion and the shit jobs on no more money, away from home, stressed out of their tits. not this callsign.

 

[ady eflog]

I saw that and thought the same, there is more to life than the RAF.... honest

because she is 2 minutes away from home, the FTRS job is piss easy and its a good wage. why would'nt she, and yes i do know her.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Ive done 32 years, 3 years to go, i don't need a challenge or personal growth, well apart from milking IEng for another £3000 out of the RAF, ive played the promotion game to reach chief and im on a FS pension so why try harder? my lump sum goes up £3000 every year I do and the pension £1000 a year, on the 05/15 pension I'm getting £140k in the 2 lumps and a £30k pension, i'll leave after 35 years happy. Ive moved around and done shit jobs so its not like ive blocked a job for anyone, Let the ball fondling thrusters take promotion and the shit jobs on no more money, away from home, stressed out of their tits. not this callsign.

So why do you come on here bleating that the RAF dont pay you enough?

 

[Rigga]

It's obviously do-able and I've known a few to have jumped across and gained the recognised qualifications (B1 / B2 or whatever they are called). It's gaining the type of aircraft rating which I think can cause issues.

Something you have to really want to do and after 22yrs of rolling around on a dirty hangar floor going home every night stinking of Avtur, I decided I'd rather become the guy in the white Overalls and tell folk what to do.

Unlicensed technicians are called "mechanics" in civ-air world, they do not have oversig' /release to service responsibilities etc and are mostly the 'doers' on the tools.

A-licence holders are the 'techs'

B-licence holders are called the 'engineers'

The mechanics can be a mixed bunch, some are young guys starting out on their aviation careers and naturally need supervision and training but many are often very experienced and skilled, and are very valuable to an MRO.

Very broadly wages wise I would say £30's to mid 40's for mechs, dependant on experience and includes a shift allowance.
A-licenced holders probably mid £40'sk to £50k. LAE's probably start around £55k going up to £80k, dependant on experience, licence cover and type ratings held. Some LAE's earn quite a bit more than the upper figure with rare or high-demand Type coverage.

A Licences are for LINE/Forward work (Officially: Line Maintenance Certifying Mechanics) for which they are restricted to tasks they have been trained for - they can't sign for Base/Depth maintenance jobs except as a mechanic...so think of them as a FLM (for those that remember them!)
B Licences are the 'LINE Maintenance Certifying Technicians' who are also A licence holders - they can sign for almost everything - and after 3 years they can apply for>>>>
C licence - Base Maintenance Certifying Engineer - They have to have a suitable degree (or a B as above) and prove they have done OJT for 1 year AND have a type rating course under their belt before applying for a stand-alone C Licence. A C licence can ONLY sign for releasing a Base maintenance check from the hangar (The Base Maintenance CRS or CSR-SMI)

All of these Licences are stand-alone qualifications and NONE is a promotion or considered a rank. (I haven't met a stand-alone C yet!)

Very many LAEs have all three and B2 as well - I have just approved one guy with 40+ types (FW and R) as A, B1, B2 and C....He knows his stuff!

As stated above - wages vary very much on where you are and who you're working with. An aviation QM/CMs wage varies from £55k-90k...or so I'm told!