Early Termination crisis inbound?

[Talk Wrench]

I've spoken to several people recently who've exercised their right to Early Termination of service.

Several common themes/comments have regularly cropped up in conversation (in no particular order)


Rubbish promotion prospects
Below par pay.
Better paid jobs outside.
No longer a career, it's just a job.
Ridiculous management decisions
HR that forgets that humans are involved
Have you seen what they want us to wear?
Fed up of woke being force fed across the active workforce.
Glossy PR, crap reality.

Given the rising opportunities in Civvy Street post Covid, is the RAF heading for an ET crisis?

Anyone who has ET'd recently or knows someone who has, please feel free to let rip with the exact reasons behind the decisions to ET.

 

[busby1971]

You could cut and paste that from any time over the past 20 years, and yet it manages to go on….

If this is an Apr 22 rise then its not too bad, ie based on Sep 21 data, if it is supposed to take into account the inflation this year then its not really fair.

Of course you have to remember its an armed forces rise so will be biased towards the army’s priorities and not the RAFs.

 

[Dirge]

You could probably cut and paste the same list from Civvy street (with one or maybe two removed) and end up with the same result. What is classed as Early termination of service? The longest I have ever spent in a job was 6 years and can honestly say that I left each one due to one of the reasons on this list.

The days when people spent 30-40 years in one job are rapidly declining if not long gone already, mainly due to not being prepared to put up with the list above.

 

[Billy Whizz]

You could probably cut and paste the same list from Civvy street (with one or maybe two removed) and end up with the same result. What is classed as Early termination of service? The longest I have ever spent in a job was 6 years and can honestly say that I left each one due to one of the reasons on this list.

The days when people spent 30-40 years in one job are rapidly declining if not long gone already, mainly due to not being prepared to put up with the list above.

Just about to leave after 38 years....maybe I'm one of the last?

 

[Dan_Brown]

My current post has me living at home, kids in local school etc - so it suits me.

I'll be ET'ing at the end of this post due to some of the reasons above. I'll keep biting the shit sandwich while it suits, but i'm not going to do that sat in a Mess room miles away from home.

I know my skillset, i know what that is worth in civvy st, if the RAF don't want to invest in me - then loyalty works both ways.

 

[Tin basher]

No longer a career, it's just a job.

That was the most common one at my last place, the old thought of seeing the RAF as a life time vocation had completely evaporated and working in the RAF had no more hold on someone than working in Greggs.

 

[ERT]

If you have a house, and reached the IP / EDP point, you will naturally look to leave. I am considering leaving, i just need a working pension calculator

 

[muttywhitedog]

Just about to leave after 38 years....maybe I'm one of the last?

You probably are.

With airlines struggling to recruit staff, it never fails to amaze me why anyone who can fix aircraft and has their pension in the bag bothers to continue in uniform for an effective 30% pay cut on pension qualification day.

 

[Spearmint]

You probably are.

With airlines struggling to recruit staff, it never fails to amaze me why anyone who can fix aircraft and has their pension in the bag bothers to continue in uniform for an effective 30% pay cut on pension qualification day.

It's obviously do-able and I've known a few to have jumped across and gained the recognised qualifications (B1 / B2 or whatever they are called). It's gaining the type of aircraft rating which I think can cause issues.

Something you have to really want to do and after 22yrs of rolling around on a dirty hangar floor going home every night stinking of Avtur, I decided I'd rather become the guy in the white Overalls and tell folk what to do.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

I've spoken to several people recently who've exercised their right to Early Termination of service.

Several common themes/comments have regularly cropped up in conversation (in no particular order)


Rubbish promotion prospects

In TG 4 it was good. Problem was WHO they were promoting! And it wasn't the competent! Apparently everyone is good at their jobs.

Below par pay.

The benefits of being in a service should outweigh this with good management, active welfare, professional but friendly culture etc...Alas...

Better paid jobs outside.

Probably.... Depends how much hours you want to put in and what lifestyle you want!

No longer a career, it's just a job.

Defo...

Ridiculous management decisions

Too many Officers we don't need justifying their existences creating more bureacracy and stuff not directly connected to your own job. "Delegating"...AKA abdicating their own jobs downwards.

HR that forgets that humans are involved

The cheek to wear blue/grey. The enemy within!! Apologies to the few competent, pro-active, helpful Shineys that actually want to make people's lives better. You will not be the ones getting promoted however. Welfare is a tick-box exercise within a JSP/AP in black and white!!

Have you seen what they want us to wear?

Out thank goodness. PCS all blue-grey. What would have been the issue???

Fed up of woke being force fed across the active workforce.

Defo..

Glossy PR, crap reality.

Super Defo....

Given the rising opportunities in Civvy Street post Covid, is the RAF heading for an ET crisis?

Anyone who has ET'd recently or knows someone who has, please feel free to let rip with the exact reasons behind the decisions to ET.

All I can say is I'm in a good place now after leaving Aug 20. Paid per hour job doing Employability Skills. Not stressful either. Tops up the pension and allows long weekends. Good pro-active upper-management who give you an answer and sort stuff out at their level. None of this "Have you chased it up?" malarkey.

Not rock star wages I'm on but boosts the pension and quality of life. Work about 30 hours/week max.

 

[busby1971]

What does an unlicensed air craft technician get paid these days?

I’m about to set up the reward structure for some semi-skilled technicians in a different sector and Market Rate seems to about £28k,

 

[Keyser Söze]

What does an unlicensed air craft technician get paid these days?

I’m about to set up the reward structure for some semi-skilled technicians in a different sector and Market Rate seems to about £28k,

Unlicensed technicians are called "mechanics" in civ-air world, they do not have oversig' /release to service responsibilities etc and are mostly the 'doers' on the tools.

A-licence holders are the 'techs'

B-licence holders are called the 'engineers'

The mechanics can be a mixed bunch, some are young guys starting out on their aviation careers and naturally need supervision and training but many are often very experienced and skilled, and are very valuable to an MRO.

Very broadly wages wise I would say £30's to mid 40's for mechs, dependant on experience and includes a shift allowance.
A-licenced holders probably mid £40'sk to £50k. LAE's probably start around £55k going up to £80k, dependant on experience, licence cover and type ratings held. Some LAE's earn quite a bit more than the upper figure with rare or high-demand Type coverage.

 

[Tin basher]

Ridiculous management decisions

No locations or names op-sec and all that.
I am invited to a leaving/retirement do next Wednesday few beers, speech for the departing, more beer and then off to the curry house, etc, usual stuff. Originally meet at the pub 16:00. One actual management decision later the early stack at 16:00 has been binned, no one is to leave work early so it's a 17:00 event now. Section morale, which wasn't great, has now been lowered by the decision and the notion that "upstairs" will now get an extra hours actual graft out of the staff is bonkers. At least those still working will have a topic of conversation for the bar.

 

[muttywhitedog]

No locations or names op-sec and all that.
I am invited to a leaving/retirement do next Wednesday few beers, speech for the departing, more beer and then off to the curry house, etc, usual stuff. Originally meet at the pub 16:00. One actual management decision later the early stack at 16:00 has been binned, no one is to leave work early so it's a 17:00 event now. Section morale, which wasn't great, has now been lowered by the decision and the notion that "upstairs" will now get an extra hours actual graft out of the staff is bonkers. At least those still working will have a topic of conversation for the bar.

Are there still Top Tables in Messes, and if so, do they take place during the day, and if so do those attending have to take half a days' leave?

 

[Tin basher]

Are there still Top Tables in Messes, and if so, do they take place during the day, and if so do those attending have to take half a days' leave?

They were much reduced, if on at all, once the messes were run by contractors not service stewards. Can't comment on the current frequency of top tables, my guess would be it varies by location.

 

[Oldstacker]

Another example of the service ceasing to be a career and lifestyle (with its drawbacks as well as its benefits) and becoming just another job where the drawbacks are not compensated for in ways that people find acceptable. The service, defence and the country are the worse for it.

 

[Cat Techie]

It's obviously do-able and I've known a few to have jumped across and gained the recognised qualifications (B1 / B2 or whatever they are called). It's gaining the type of aircraft rating which I think can cause issues.

Something you have to really want to do and after 22yrs of rolling around on a dirty hangar floor going home every night stinking of Avtur, I decided I'd rather become the guy in the white Overalls and tell folk what to do.

The basic licence is the 17 exams and the one year with proof of all the jobs with proper references against tasks actually carried out on live aircraft. It used to be possible to do in that time if you were lucky and had a company that would help you do it, some it took longer as I found out. It is the first type rating that the complete ball ache. My colleague tonight is a basic B1 holder and stamping as a Cat A. He cannot get the OJT tasks to add to his type course to apply to the CAA for a rating. The OJT is 50% of a list of tasks made up from a basic list made by regulatory authorities (was EASA) in 2012 and brought in to UK in 2013. It is base maintenance tasks as well as line maintenance. You have to work for a MRO or a Big airline that has MRO facilities to remotely stand a chance to get everything. My mate is stuffed at the moment working with my lot. Shadow or Voyager is by the far the best way to get ticket and type before one leaves and wants to do civvy engineering. Or P8 if it is licenced stampers. The guys on the big airways do earn big bucks for Jet 2 etc. 70 K for some. And you are not on your hand or knees on the big stuff. Torch, pen and stamp. Aircraft flying , it is tea bar a lot of the time. Yes managers earn more, but they have to look like they work. Like Rigga.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Are there still Top Tables in Messes, and if so, do they take place during the day, and if so do those attending have to take half a days' leave?

Went to a TT last week; The location was 'off base' costs were £30 p/h for 3 cse meal, which I thought was very reasonable; food and service was very good. Atmosphere was nice and relaxed, no stupid rules about p1ss breaks; TT going first to the bar etc and since many of the attendee's were ex mil (me also) it was a very good craic. Meal and speeches done, over to bar have quite a few scoops, then all walk down the pub(s) and more hammer.
I took 1 days leave, because of my geographic location and because of the almighty hang-over following day.
By contrast I went to a TT on a mil base a few yrs back and it was nt as good, the atmosphere was just too stuffy ; for me anyway. We all stayed in the mess bar which was pretty rubbish, yes cheap accommodation but it was poor, like stepping back into the 80's single bed green rubber mattress - we can all picture it

 

[muttywhitedog]

Unlicensed technicians are called "mechanics" in civ-air world, they do not have oversig' /release to service responsibilities etc and are mostly the 'doers' on the tools.

A-licence holders are the 'techs'

B-licence holders are called the 'engineers'

The mechanics can be a mixed bunch, some are young guys starting out on their aviation careers and naturally need supervision and training but many are often very experienced and skilled, and are very valuable to an MRO.

Very broadly wages wise I would say mid 30's to mid 40's for mechs, dependant on experience and includes a shift allowance.
A-licenced holders probably mid £40'sk to £50k. LAE's are probably of start around £55k going up to £80k dependant on experience, licence cover and type ratings held. Some LAE's earn quite a bit more than that upper figure with rare or high-demand Type coverage

Ok, so a 22 yr SNCO could walk with their £11K a year pension and earn up to £40k spannering as a mech. Total income approx £50k.

Why stay in?

 

[Downsizer]

Ok, so a 22 yr SNCO could walk with their £11K a year pension and earn up to £40k spannering as a mech. Total income approx £50k.

Why stay in?

Maybe doesn't live next to an airport?