Early Termination crisis inbound?

[Cat Techie]

Type is worth nothing unless it is current.

A Licences are for LINE/Forward work (Officially: Line Maintenance Certifying Mechanics) for which they are restricted to tasks they have been trained for - they can't sign for Base/Depth maintenance jobs except as a mechanic...so think of them as a FLM (for those that remember them!)
B Licences are the 'Base Maintenance Certifying Technicians' who are also A licence holders - they can sign for almost everything - and after 4 years they can apply for>>>>
C licence - Base Maintenance Certifying Engineer - They have to have a suitable degree (or a B was above) and prove they have done OJT for 1 year AND have a type rating course under their belt before applying for a stand-alone C Licence. A C licence can ONLY sign for releasing a Base maintenance check from the hangar (The Base Maintenance CRS or CSR-SMI)

All of these Licences are stand-alone qualifications and NONE is a promotion or considered a rank. (I haven't met a stand-alone C yet!)

Very many LAEs have all three and B2 as well - I have just approved one guy with 40+ types (FW and R) as A, B1, B2 and C....He knows his stuff!

As stated above - wages vary very much on where you are and who you're working with. An aviation QM/CMs wage varies from £55k-90k...or so I'm told!

Type is worth nothing without currency. More than 2 years away from 6 in 24, CAA have virtually said a type course is required. I have one current type on my ticket. The others are just typing on a piece of paper and I would have to work doing the different tasks for eons to reactivate currency on them. CAP 2377 refers.

 

[Oldstacker]

I saw a linkedin post the other day about a female WO who was retiring after over 35 years. Her future job was a 5 year FTRS contract.

40+ years in the mob, and all I could think is "why".

Why not?

In the dim distant long ago, lots of people aspired to do just that, a lifetime career in the service. Back in those days, most trades had multiple roles that people could do at different stages of their career, whether that be Sqn work, bay jobs or even 'factory work' at places like Sealand or St Athan. The opportunities were different for each trade. Similarly, there were so many more units that an individual could spend a career in RAF Lincolnshire or RAF East Anglia and be posted yet still be within a short drive from a carefully chosen home when one got to that stage. I even knew one Chief who , it was reputed, had served his entire career at Odiham, moving between Sqdn to Bay to ASF to ECP&F etc with each promotion. The point being that a full career could be pretty varied if an individual wanted or as static as they chose. Unfortunately, stations are few and far between now, the variety of roles has been reduced and the opportunities for fun and 'out of the norm' experiences has greatly diminished and so the attractions of a lifetime in uniform have dwindled for many.

But if she has found a way to have a rewarding career that suits her needs then why shouldn't she make the most of it?

 

[Billy Whizz]

I saw a linkedin post the other day about a female WO who was retiring after over 35 years. Her future job was a 5 year FTRS contract.

40+ years in the mob, and all I could think is "why".

I'd be more concerned at the abated pension aspect of going FTRS after 35+years. Yes you get your lump sum but are capped on earnings so can't draw the full £26K+ pension. Ok, I get the argument that they'd still be on £55k+ a year but still.................

 

[muttywhitedog]

Why not?

Because if she loves it so much, she could have stayed as a regular until 60. But that would probably involve being liable for deployments.

 

[busby1971]

I'd be more concerned at the abated pension aspect of going FTRS after 35+years. Yes you get your lump sum but are capped on earnings so can't draw the full £26K+ pension. Ok, I get the argument that they'd still be on £55k+ a year but still.................

IIRC the lower FTRS pay will be made up by what pension she can draw, a few benefits drop off, however, quality of life might be better as the lady in question works for an organisation she obviously loves and which values her skills and experience.

I spent some time with the reserves, I never saw any issues with ex-regulars applying for FTRS or ADC roles, usual balance of good and bad guys overall, what I never liked was when a role was flipped from regular to reserve thereby blocking a promotion for someone equally deserving of the opportunities that individual had enjoyed.

 

[Billy Whizz]

IIRC the lower FTRS pay will be made up by what pension she can draw, a few benefits drop off, however, quality of life might be better as the lady in question works for an organisation she obviously loves and which values her skills and experience.

I spent some time with the reserves, I never saw any issues with ex-regulars applying for FTRS or ADC roles, usual balance of good and bad guys overall, what I never liked was when a role was flipped from regular to reserve thereby blocking a promotion for someone equally deserving of the opportunities that individual had enjoyed.

I was looking at going back Ressie 2 days a week but got a better offer from DE&S (3 days), which, with pension, leaves me on pretty much the same as when I leave. Quality of life improvement, for me anyway

 

[Oldstacker]

Because if she loves it so much, she could have stayed as a regular until 60. But that would probably involve being liable for deployments.

Or the FTRS post could have been civilianised and another uniformed post lost altogether, further reducing career options for those to come.

 

[busby1971]

Or the FTRS post could have been civilianised and another uniformed post lost altogether, further reducing career options for those to come.

If it’s a civi job it shouldn’t be FTRS, FTRS cost a whole lot more than a Civil Servant, so deals like this just shouldn’t be done.

 

[Oldstacker]

If it’s a civi job it shouldn’t be FTRS, FTRS cost a whole lot more than a Civil Servant,

And recruiting someone with a WO's skills and experience set on a CS pay at the most likely grade just wouldn't happen so you would either get an inexperienced but cheap CS with limited skills or a gapped post. The FTRS route is the middle path. It can be hard enough as it is to get FTRS with the right SQEP, I have the scars to prove it.

 

[busby1971]

Didn’t say it would be easy, just that it shouldn’t be the norm, however, if it’s a Regular Job a Regular should do it, knocking the problem 5 years down the road is a sticking plaster not a solution.

It’s not cheap or easy creating an effective succession plan, but it’s a lot more expensive not to have one (it also does me out of a job as this is something I get paid to do)

 

[Downsizer]

Because if she loves it so much, she could have stayed as a regular until 60. But that would probably involve being liable for deployments.

How? TCOS is LOS35 for FS and WO. You said she'd already done 35? In some circumstances people can extend to age 60 but that is case by case and likely for niche sqep reasons.

I also suspect the FTRS role was not in her core trade?

 

[Talk Wrench]

PVR Spike bcos surging job market. The firm is panicking

There IS an inbound ET crisis then. So where are the pain points going to be felt in 6 months time?

 

[busby1971]

There IS an inbound ET crisis then. So where are the pain points going to be felt in 6 months time?

Theres also a recession coming, which for some reason hasn’t hit the jobs market, which could make a few nervous.

I had a youngish lad leave his apprenticeship (which had a guaranteed £30k role next year) early because he’d been offered £40k as a Subcon with our key competitor, tried explaining loss of security, however, wasn’t having it.

 

[Tin basher]

There IS an inbound ET crisis then.

Seemingly the techies were banging out at a rapid rate back in 2016. So do we have a new crisis this time in 2022 or just a continuation of the unending decline of the 21st century Royal Air Force?

November 2016 TW said "Heard a rumour that by the end of this year, up to 500 TG1 are expected to PVR."

Techies banging out at a rapid rate

There seems to be quite a few TG1 PVRing at the moment, I heard a figure of 350 this year mentioned, manning is down to 90% for the trade. all the promotion boards have ground to a halt as they cant promote people without leavi ng massive gaps. whats the answer?

www.egoat.net

 

[muttywhitedog]

Seemingly the techies were banging out at a rapid rate back in 2016. So do we have a new crisis this time in 2022 or just a continuation of the unending decline of the 21st century Royal Air Force?

November 2016 TW said "Heard a rumour that by the end of this year, up to 500 TG1 are expected to PVR."

Techies banging out at a rapid rate

There seems to be quite a few TG1 PVRing at the moment, I heard a figure of 350 this year mentioned, manning is down to 90% for the trade. all the promotion boards have ground to a halt as they cant promote people without leavi ng massive gaps. whats the answer?

www.egoat.net

No crisis. Ady is still there holding the fort.

 

[Oldstacker]

Didn’t say it would be easy, just that it shouldn’t be the norm, however, if it’s a Regular Job a Regular should do it, knocking the problem 5 years down the road is a sticking plaster not a solution.

It’s not cheap or easy creating an effective succession plan, but it’s a lot more expensive not to have one (it also does me out of a job as this is something I get paid to do)

I don't dispute the premise that if a job calls for, say, a WO then that should be a post for a regular. BUT, organisations such as DE&S DTs are tight on manpower budgets so can't afford the full whack costs of a regular, especially when that individual could then spend 4 - 6 months of 3 year tour OOA or on other service activities leaving the role gapped. Why pay high costs for someone who's not there when you can make the post FTRS, save money and know that they will be around all the time as well. As a billy bonus, you even get a chance to select the right person from, hopefully/theoretically, a pool of applicants as opposed to have to having someone (who may not want the challenge of a niche or less trade -centric role) foisted upon you by manning. It's a no-brainer for a cash strapped organisation.

 

[busby1971]

If all sub-organisations did this when a role came up then the burden of creating a trained and experienced WO pool falls on a smaller and smaller group of budgets and the requirement to deploy will come around quicker for the smaller group of deployable WOs who remain on on regular terms, it becomes quite a viscous cycle,

You can’t blame the Team or the individual, as it makes perfect sense to them, however, it does cause long term issues at an organisational level if the burden isn’t fairly shared.

 

[ady eflog]

So why do you come on here bleating that the RAF dont pay you enough?

because they don't pay us the civvy equivalent plus 14%

 

[Tin basher]

because they don't pay us the civvy equivalent plus 14%

Plus 14% why?
Is that the civvy equivalent + the X factor, or + rate of inflation, or because its a better number to choose than 13%

Remember that you do get free socks.

 

[Stevienics]

Seemingly the techies were banging out at a rapid rate back in 2016. So do we have a new crisis this time in 2022 or just a continuation of the unending decline of the 21st century Royal Air Force?

November 2016 TW said "Heard a rumour that by the end of this year, up to 500 TG1 are expected to PVR."

Techies banging out at a rapid rate

There seems to be quite a few TG1 PVRing at the moment, I heard a figure of 350 this year mentioned, manning is down to 90% for the trade. all the promotion boards have ground to a halt as they cant promote people without leavi ng massive gaps. whats the answer?

www.egoat.net

Well you know the recruiters are always chasing the curve 2 years down the line so they let some slip out without too much fuss, as the curve is southwards anyway. Now everyone's gotten used to getting a good job and leaving in 2-3 months or less - but now that's not happening if they can help it. You can imagine the job ops outside right now.