F35 down

[Talk Wrench]

Swiss Cheese model? The Dirty Dozen? Murphy's law etc to name but a few of the various Human Factor models out there.

A costly mistake, easily avoided.

 

[Barch]

Swiss Cheese model? The Dirty Dozen? Murphy's law etc to name but a few of the various Human Factor models out there.

A costly mistake, easily avoided.

I would think that at least 3 people missed the fitted blank ...

• the liney,
• the ramp tramp (or whatever they are called on a carrier),
• and the pilot.

If all 3 of them missed the blank then there is a major fundamental problem with the design of the blank.

 

[Allflapnofly]

It was the final episode last night of that six-part QE Lilibet RN carrier series....I actually watched all six episodes more out of curiosity than entertainment....Large elements of it in my opinion were a bit of a cringe fest and quite a few WTF moments? I think the two guys writin' music and playing their gee-tars are in hot pursuit of being the next James Blunties....

Nuff said about the opinionated chef that I found quite irritating - and who is now (no surprises there then) no longer a member of HM Forces....I think change is good and moving with the times is essential and crucial regarding all people and progression....How things are changing....Some for the better and some for.....well, yeah.....

The best documentary about the RN I remember, featured the ageing 4th HMS Ark Royal carrier and was transmitted in 1976 when I was in my teeny years. That RN doc prog was called....'Sailor' and the intro music was Rod Stewart's song Sailing.....I even thought about joining the Fleet Air Arm if I was unsuccessful in joining t'Raf.....Fortunately, I joined the latter....

 

[Junter]

I was surprised that the RN let junior zobs drive a big boat like that.

 

[ady eflog]

I would think that at least 3 people missed the fitted blank ...

• the liney,
• the ramp tramp (or whatever they are called on a carrier),
• and the pilot.

If all 3 of them missed the blank then there is a major fundamental problem with the design of the blank.

But if its down the intake, out of sight and you dont account for them you aint going to see it.

 

[Barch]

But if its down the intake, out of sight and you dont account for them you aint going to see it.

As I said, "If all 3 of them missed the blank then there is a major fundamental problem with the design of the blank."

If the blank is so far down the intake that it can't be seen wouldn't you agree that the blank design is fundamentally flawed?

 

[Spearmint]

As I said, "If all 3 of them missed the blank then there is a major fundamental problem with the design of the blank."

If the blank is so far down the intake that it can't be seen wouldn't you agree that the blank design is fundamentally flawed?

Ex F35B Flight Line Controller here.....and I did my fair share of Ramp Tramping / Line Walking on the thing as well.

The intake blanks are pretty hard to miss so I'm thinking someone used one inside the intake to rest their knees on for inspections around the Lift Fan Prop Shaft Tunnel and Front Face of the Engine before forgetting about it. Personally I just straddled the Tunnel but then I was usually in and out of there pretty quickly.

 

[Barch]

Ex F35B Flight Line Controller here.....and I did my fair share of Ramp Tramping / Line Walking on the thing as well.

The intake blanks are pretty hard to miss so I'm thinking someone used one inside the intake to rest their knees on for inspections around the Lift Fan Prop Shaft Tunnel and Front Face of the Engine before forgetting about it. Personally I just straddled the Tunnel but then I was usually in and out of there pretty quickly.

Interesting.

From that, I take it that they are a dense sponge-type lump.

Are they bright red/orange or a low visibility colour?

 

[Spearmint]

Bright Red / Orange from memory.

I was also getting my lads to tie them together so they would come away as a pair but as Trilogiview did not represent that we were told to stop. The F735 I submitted to correct the TI did not make it off unit IIRC.

 

[Barch]

Bright Red / Orange from memory.

I was also getting my lads to tie them together so they would come away as a pair but as Trilogiview did not represent that we were told to stop. The F735 I submitted to correct the TI did not make it off unit IIRC.

And I bet those that kiboshed the idea didn't even think 'If I had only ...'

We had a SENGO on XI ADVs that wouldn't allow SNCOs an input into anything, we were given an SI with safety implications. I (The line controller) and the sooty TM put forward an idea that was rejected without any discussion.

The following day an engine mech doing the SI was lucky not to be killed while following the SI to the letter.

 

[foxOneFive]

Ex F35B Flight Line Controller here.....and I did my fair share of Ramp Tramping / Line Walking on the thing as well.

The intake blanks are pretty hard to miss so I'm thinking someone used one inside the intake to rest their knees on for inspections around the Lift Fan Prop Shaft Tunnel and Front Face of the Engine before forgetting about it. Personally I just straddled the Tunnel but then I was usually in and out of there pretty quickly.

I'm smelling a rat here? If the blanks are "hard to miss" could it have been something as simple as a gash piece of foam or something similar?

 

[Forestfan]

Completely sensible idea Spearmint. Easily directed with a 2(R)1 update or even an AESO. I do hope the concerns previously raised come out...

 

[Spearmint]

Completely sensible idea Spearmint. Easily directed with a 2(R)1 update or even an AESO. I do hope the concerns previously raised come out...

That was my thought, a logical and sensible idea which was best practice on other fast jet platforms. The SEngO who poo-poo'd the idea was once Equerry to Randy Andy so that should (if you know, you know) tell you all you need to know of their mindset.

 

[Forestfan]

That was my thought, a logical and sensible idea which was best practice on other fast jet platforms. The SEngO who poo-poo'd the idea was once Equerry to Randy Andy so that should (if you know, you know) tell you all you need to know of their mindset.

Does indeed!

 

[dctyke]

In the days of yore stbd and port intake blanks were joined by tape with a flag in the middle. What a good idea.

 

[Rigga]

You can’t blame the Blank. It didnt get there on its own - it’s had an accomplice - but that accomplice isnt being an idiot right now and is saving their bacon…perhaps for another day.
Like all mysteries, someone, somewhere, knows what went on and it seems the QE didn’t have a Scooby Doo Team on board to find that darned culprit.

 

[Downsizer]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1176707/Service_Inquiry_Loss_of_F-35B_Lightning_ZM152_BK-18.pdf

Full report

 

[Tin basher]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1176707/Service_Inquiry_Loss_of_F-35B_Lightning_ZM152_BK-18.pdf

Full report

Thats a long read and the biggest use of the traditional "intentionally blank" pages I've seen. Lots of little things, poor weather, torch lens colours, hangar tidying tasks, two man rule, fragmented info chain etc etc all adding up to large consequences.

 

[Barch]

Thats a long read and the biggest use of the traditional "intentionally blank" pages I've seen. Lots of little things, poor weather, torch lens colours, hangar tidying tasks, two man rule, fragmented info chain etc etc all adding up to large consequences.

What do you expect?

The whole report is about blanks.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

Goes to show, there are no new accidents, only lessons we've forgotten.