• Welcome to the E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial RAF Rumour Network.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

More reductions

muttywhitedog

Retired Rock Star 5.5.14
1000+ Posts
4,602
643
113
That's what they said about PAYD.....

I have eaten in a number of Officers' & Seniors' messes (and some combined eateries) of all 3 services in recent years, the differences are less about the quality of the food per se but more about the ambience and service style. For me, the positive about separate messes is that they give promotion an added benefit in terms of comfort and style. It shouldn't just be about money in the pocket.

And (as Downsizer alludes), we have in all the services a wide range of people from the highly educated &, frankly, 'civilised' to the basic general purpose grunt for whom knife & fork are difficult concepts. I'm not sure that 'levelling up' is what will occur,....
So let those who want to eat separately do so, as long as public funding is only directed at the one communal mess facility.

Prices elsewhere will be similar to restaurants, so £10-£15 for lunch and £15-£20 for evening meals. My guess is that within a week the place will be empty and those who really want to eat on base will be in the communal dining hall eating the same food for £4.
 

vim_fuego

Hung Like a Baboon.
Staff member
Administrator
Subscriber
1000+ Posts
12,275
461
83
So let those who want to eat separately do so, as long as public funding is only directed at the one communal mess facility.

Prices elsewhere will be similar to restaurants, so £10-£15 for lunch and £15-£20 for evening meals. My guess is that within a week the place will be empty and those who really want to eat on base will be in the communal dining hall eating the same food for £4.
Last time I was at Waddington that was largely what I saw. I popped over to Subway For lunch and the JR’s mess is upstairs. The old folks home mess was shut so they were all messing upstairs in the JRs. What I saw was a packed Subway and Costa and not many going upstairs.
 

Oldstacker

Warrant Officer
1000+ Posts
2,237
432
83
Ah, Subway & Costa - the homes of high quality balanced, nutritious & healthy food.....
 

Stevienics

Warrant Officer
1000+ Posts
4,931
107
63
For better or worse all this current kerfuffle is making combined messing the norm rather than the exception. In the messes there is no use permitted of communal rooms as well and the bars are closed.

Because of WFH, many people have simply changed their way of living - the kitchens are getting very little trade, and rightfully so. I can see this sticking.
 

Cornish_Pikey

Sergeant
622
158
43
In my last year in blue I used to go for lunch once a month at best in a deserted mess to meet up with some like minded individuals and then grab a coffee in the ante room after. The mess was usually empty.

Prices were entirely random too. Two lots of fish and chips. Core menu (nasty fish) about £1.50, beer battered cod (not so nasty but still not great) About a fiver. Muppetry.

Also as part of the mess ents committee it was a struggle to fill any events other than the big ones e,g, Mess Ball, Xmas Draw and maybe the Pickle night for our navy brethren. It seemed as if PAYD had ruined everything as the contracted mess staff were unable to have the flexibility to help the service members out by working overtime etc. They wanted to help out but they'd been cut to the bone and were unable to take on temporary staff to assist for events past midnight etc.
 

br9mp81

Corporal
375
3
18
In my last year in blue I used to go for lunch once a month at best in a deserted mess to meet up with some like minded individuals and then grab a coffee in the ante room after. The mess was usually empty.

Prices were entirely random too. Two lots of fish and chips. Core menu (nasty fish) about £1.50, beer battered cod (not so nasty but still not great) About a fiver. Muppetry.

Also as part of the mess ents committee it was a struggle to fill any events other than the big ones e,g, Mess Ball, Xmas Draw and maybe the Pickle night for our navy brethren. It seemed as if PAYD had ruined everything as the contracted mess staff were unable to have the flexibility to help the service members out by working overtime etc. They wanted to help out but they'd been cut to the bone and were unable to take on temporary staff to assist for events past midnight etc.
I'm a old fart, but if as a young spoon i'd told an 'old' style catering WO i wanted PAYD (which i did not) he would have righty smacked me round the head, some sowed the seeds that screwed things up for todays troops
 

Rugby-Jock-Lad

Flight Sergeant
1000+ Posts
1,459
185
63
I'm a old fart, but if as a young spoon i'd told an 'old' style catering WO i wanted PAYD (which i did not) he would have righty smacked me round the head, some sowed the seeds that screwed things up for todays troops
The implementation was WRONG!!! That's what the issue was. Basically singlies were being charged approx £5/ day BUT not all the money was used daily. Some of the food could be derisable. Some of the money was put into a pot for OOAs etc. A tad unfair when you consider that married personnel were not paying but living out of this pot when OOA. I know this because a Sgt Chef told me this. Needless to say nobody was showing any empathy to singlies AND STILL forcing them to pay at camps when they were not living there but living out. In training camps like Locking and T055fo0rd, personnel were forced to live-in, despite not living in so were losing money. So to blame only singlies is wrong!! If the contractors produced good food then they would have a captive "audience". Albeit the contractors just wanted to make money and genuinely thought that military personnel are all thick and would pay at the mess because they have been told to, all the while serving cr4P food!!!!
 
Last edited:

busby1971

Super Moderator
Staff member
1000+ Posts
6,953
573
113
That was one of the great lies. The food charge was based on a calculation of what it costs eat in an average home (some complicated math in the back ground) it took into account missed eats and such like but was very effective as everything was smoothed out, so whilst all the grumblise thought they were missing out, they were just a group of moaning minnies.

When the people in charge, who wanted to farm out this system, asked some pointed question of these moaners they got the answers they wanted, they then sold off the concessions and their careers probably had a jump or two,.

So rather than paying a charge based on what it cost to eat at home (add up all the incidents. It isn’t just the ingredients) you are now paying for all the costs of providing a meal and a slice of profit too.
 

muttywhitedog

Retired Rock Star 5.5.14
1000+ Posts
4,602
643
113
When something in the public sector is mooted for change or reform, it invariably means "cuts".

The questions asked with PAYD were centred around the injustice of being forced to pay £X per day at weekends for food that wasnt consumed. Result - lower quality food at higher prices.

The questions asked with AFPS were centred around career average earnings rather than final rank. Result - lower pensions.

JPA was sold to the masses with the message that you can do simple HR without a trip to PSF - nobody said at that stage that TG17 would suffer 40% cuts in manpower to the point where there's hardly anybody available for the stuff you cant do yourself.

If there are any current serving members left on this forum, then my advice is "Be careful what you wish for"
 

4everAD

Sergeant
873
60
28
When something in the public sector is mooted for change or reform, it invariably means "cuts".

The questions asked with PAYD were centred around the injustice of being forced to pay £X per day at weekends for food that wasnt consumed. Result - lower quality food at higher prices.

The questions asked with AFPS were centred around career average earnings rather than final rank. Result - lower pensions.

JPA was sold to the masses with the message that you can do simple HR without a trip to PSF - nobody said at that stage that TG17 would suffer 40% cuts in manpower to the point where there's hardly anybody available for the stuff you cant do yourself.

If there are any current serving members left on this forum, then my advice is "Be careful what you wish for"
I'm hearing murmurings around regional HR hubs rather than Station/Unit PSFs, you won't even be able to blame a clerk for messing your pay up in person anymore!
 

Dazzy26

Corporal
256
4
18
I'm hearing murmurings around regional HR hubs rather than Station/Unit PSFs, you won't even be able to blame a clerk for messing your pay up in person anymore!
Not rumour, is being introduced and will be coming to a region near you in the not too distant future! Numbers within the hubs will no doubt see a reduction in the numbers of HR personnel and a 'your call is important to us' call holding system!!
 

Downsizer

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Subscriber
1000+ Posts
6,994
169
63
Since the intro of JPA in what, 2006(?), I've had to visit PSF for a handful of reasons....maybe once every 2 years....never had my pay messed up.

Are you all admin burdens or something? I'm really struggling to see the issue.
 

Rugby-Jock-Lad

Flight Sergeant
1000+ Posts
1,459
185
63
I'm hearing murmurings around regional HR hubs rather than Station/Unit PSFs, you won't even be able to blame a clerk for messing your pay up in person anymore!
Damage done to themselves unfortunately. Last station I was at ("Secret Bunker Station with the MOST important trade in the RAF...in their own lunchtimes) it was the worst PSF I ever saw!! Unhelpful, condescending, self-serving, P1s that though they were the Station Commander..all approved by the Witch of a WO that ran the place (Officers were useless of course). When she left it got better, albeit still keeping your guard up. Best one had to be the investigation into themselves as to why one of our lads in a remote place had to pay back GYH(T) mileage. Seems someone in PSF took it upon themselves to change his form and add more mileage. Needless to say HE should have reported this (for the form he couldn't see once submitted of course). Of course the investigation found PSF not-guilty. Currently the station now has as self-serving, useless bint, promoted from AFCO, wreaking havoc as Chief-Clerk.

As much as JPA got a slamming I found that phoning JPAC, once they sorted their lives out, were rather helpful with no BS on the phones!!!

Admin/MT/Catering...they damaged their own trades with Empire Building and lots of unhelpful BS etc... TG4 has followed this model quite well.....
 
Last edited:

busby1971

Super Moderator
Staff member
1000+ Posts
6,953
573
113
Not wanting to bash my old colleagues but I think the PSF centric leadership shot themselves in the foot as seeing this as the future of the trade, rather than adding value as a deployed resource to units and Sqns, thereby being appreciated by our brothers rather than being seen as distant and elitis.

A direction which is almost the opposite of the Ulrich model, trades don’t make themselves relevant by doing what is best for themselves.
 

muttywhitedog

Retired Rock Star 5.5.14
1000+ Posts
4,602
643
113
I'm hearing murmurings around regional HR hubs rather than Station/Unit PSFs, you won't even be able to blame a clerk for messing your pay up in person anymore!

I've also heard this is the new model and the TG17 past and present FB site seems to be collectively wearing a black armband to mourn the death of the trade. Anyone able to confirm if/when and how it will look?
 

4everAD

Sergeant
873
60
28
Additionally to this rumour I've heard rumours of cuts of up to 10% of the RAF manning level. I wonder if this is the start of the TG17 (and other TGs) cull. As has been alluded to we already do the jobs of clerks, drivers and other trades so is it time to reduce their numbers accordingly?
 

unruly1986

Sergeant
727
33
28
On MODnet look for ‘SSP’. Zero promotions from the latest SAC-Cpl board might be an indicator as to future ’person’power requirements.
 

Rigga

Licensed Aircraft Engineer
1000+ Posts
Licensed A/C Eng
2,163
122
63
Army musicians are all the army’s battlefield medics...that play music when not in a war.
they train in con-meat and medical techniques a lot of the time, and the rest of their time they play music.
 
Top