Ex Red going down.

[Dan_Brown]

I agree. Yes, he should have known better, he isn't in her reporting chain, 2 consenting adults = game on.

She gave no thought to his wife and kids when they were doing the nasty, yet she is now complaining to be the 'victim' in all this.

 

[Downsizer]

View attachment 1011972

I agree. Yes, he should have known better, he isn't in her reporting chain, 2 consenting adults = game on.

She gave no thought to his wife and kids when they were doing the nasty, yet she is now complaining to be the 'victim' in all this.

Disagree. Wing Commander on a Sqn nailing a Cpl is a failure of the service test IMO.

Ultimately it's the same CoC, every Flying Sqn I've ever been on ultimately my CoC ends at teh Wing Commander.

Furthermore as the OC of the Sqn he should have been setting a better leadership example than nailing a JR openly whilst married. It sets the acceptable culture.

 

[foxOneFive]

I find it bizarre that Pilots and groundcrew had different hotels That really makes you feel part of the same "team" NOT.

As Eng in the 80's to early 2000's on normal Sqn's. Jocks and techies always shared the same hotel, and by the end of the night always ended up in bosses room (that doesn't sound very good) But you know what I mean

 

[Dan_Brown]

Disagree. Wing Commander on a Sqn nailing a Cpl is a failure of the service test IMO.

Ultimately it's the same CoC, every Flying Sqn I've ever been on ultimately my CoC ends at teh Wing Commander.

Furthermore as the OC of the Sqn he should have been setting a better leadership example than nailing a JR openly whilst married. It sets the acceptable culture.

Your right to disagree, but the RAF have stated it was a private matter - so they didn't believe it a failure of the Service Test.

 

[Downsizer]

Your right to disagree, but the RAF have stated it was a private matter - so they didn't believe it a failure of the Service Test.

What do you think?

 

[Dan_Brown]

What do you think?

Doesn't matter what i think, them's the rules nowadays.

However, seems as though you asked An officer, should be beyond reproach, integrity and all that, however, those days are gone bar a few. I see it in the officers, i see it in the juniors - work gets in the way of their social life and it's more what can the RAF do for me as oppose to the other way around.

The RAF is seen as more of a job as oppose to a career and the top brass do not hide the fact that they want to see people do a few years then move on. So there is no investment from both the organisation or the people - and it shows.

 

[SausageFingers]

Doesn't matter what i think, them's the rules nowadays.

However, seems as though you asked An officer, should be beyond reproach, integrity and all that, however, those days are gone bar a few. I see it in the officers, i see it in the juniors - work gets in the way of their social life and it's more what can the RAF do for me as oppose to the other way around.

The RAF is seen as more of a job as oppose to a career and the top brass do not hide the fact that they want to see people do a few years then move on. So there is no investment from both the organisation or the people - and it shows.

Which is quite alarming for a 'bottom fed' organization that relies on climbing through the ranks to achieve management positions.

It won't be long before we're hiring FSs and WOs as DEs because of their management skills as opposed to service/operational experience - by then we may as well be a branch of Tesco.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I find it bizarre that Pilots and groundcrew had different hotels That really makes you feel part of the same "team" NOT.

As Eng in the 80's to early 2000's on normal Sqn's. Jocks and techies always shared the same hotel, and by the end of the night always ended up in bosses room (that doesn't sound very good) But you know what I mean

I have experienced both the separation and integration on FJ Sqns. Jag Sqns in Gioia in the 90s had officers in one hotel, SNCOs in another and JR in another - all in different towns, although I dont think that was of the Sqn's choosing as other dets would see us housed in the same hotel.

Tornado Sqn in the late 90s/early 2000's - everyone in same accommodation and everyone ate together. The only time I recall segregation was at Goose Bay, but whilst living in different accommodation, the officers & SNCOs refused to sit in the partitioned area of the combined mess for meals

Harrier Sqn 2007-2010 - everyone was in the same accommodation and ate together on deployments. There was absolutely no us and them culture.

 

[Downsizer]

It won't be long before we're hiring FSs and WOs as DEs because of their management skills as opposed to service/operational experience - by then we may as well be a branch of Tesco.

It has been seriously discussed in recent times.

 

[Talk Wrench]

It has been seriously discussed in recent times.

IIRC, they brought in DE Sgt Air Traffic control bods and also DE-straight to FS legal positions in the late 90's so why not in engineering?

 

[Dougtheplug]

IIRC, they brought in DE Sgt Air Traffic control bods and also DE-straight to FS legal positions in the late 90's so why not in engineering?

Do you think that might someone who is licensed?

 

[Downsizer]

Do you think that might someone who is licensed?

Do you mean the DE ATC Sgts recruited? Cus if so they aren't licensed.

 

[Cat Techie]

IIRC, they brought in DE Sgt Air Traffic control bods and also DE-straight to FS legal positions in the late 90's so why not in engineering?

Whom would go into RAF engineering from Civvy Street and take a massive pay cut? LAEs for Ryanair and Jet 2 are on 80K basic. Poor regional guys like me are going to be on 65 K.

 

[ERT]

Reds story - An affair, a posting, an unhappy wife..

Aug 22, I posted that. I could expand but it's only rumours.

 

[Dougtheplug]

Do you mean the DE ATC Sgts recruited? Cus if so they aren't licensed.

What I was suggesting and with regards to the previous post highlighting that already legally qualified persons slotted into a FS position commensurate with their qualification. I believe the medical related trades do something similar inline with civil quals.
Why shouldn’t aircraft engineering be any different?. Granted as also suggested the pay cut might be hard to take, but it would possibly offer the potential for personal growth.

 

[Tin basher]

Neither for or against the concept but... How would the idea of a FS or similar coming in to the position sideways sit with those who aspire to achieve the position by the normal route of service promotion on merit. Would the promotion tube be blocked off or just slowed down??? If it's perceived as a promotion stopper then perhaps unintentionally it would encourage even more to pull the handle as the chance of climbing the greasy pole were now reduced. If we need 20 FS and 10 come from outside then only 10 slots remain for promotion where once there were 20 available.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

Granted as also suggested the pay cut might be hard to take, but it would possibly offer the potential for personal growth.

Drugs testing not a thing at your place, I take it ?!?

 

[Dougtheplug]

Drugs testing not a thing at your place, I take it ?!?

My point was as suggested by sausage fingers above, was that it might not be long before the RAF recruits DE upper management from the likes of Tesco’s etc. It was their experience level that I was highlighting would be similar to a licensed engineer, but obviously not their wage level.
Many years ago when I was stationed at a southern AT base (and I’m happy to be corrected on this point), i believe that when voyager started they sideways recruited LE’s in line with an equivalent civilian grade?.
I appreciate that the Air Force has massively changed since I left and I’m probably looking through rose tinted glasses, however reading many of the comments on this site it looks like the service is truly on its arse. As I’m sure you are more than aware, aviation (and many other industries) are seriously struggling to recruit and retain staff. If the Air force continues to bury its head, it seriously will face massive consequences as it holds no more appeal than working in a normal 9-5 job. At my current place we are even offered “recruit a colleague” bonuses should they be successful , I even believe the Navy do something similar. I even vaguely recall (and again happy to be corrected) the prime minister 6 months ago or so promoting a zig-zag career path between civil/military industries.

To summarise my point, I’m suggesting that the military might need to look at many differing methods to recruit personnel and not (let’s be honest) a pretty much failing bottom feed retention methodology.