• Welcome to the E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial RAF Rumour Network.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

SDSR15 - Sunday reading

J Y Kelly

Corporal
205
7
18
I can't read the whole of the Sunday Times article because if the paywall however the text has been cut and pasted on another site. I think this paragraph should not be overlooked.

The review will, however, include cuts to the Royal Navy and to Ministry of Defence management funding. Some military units will be forced to merge or disband, military bases will be closed and sold off and there will be more outsourcing. There will also be a reduction in training budgets and changes to military terms of service.

The article in the Scotsman is naive in its assumption that the clock can be turned back.
 

propersplitbrainme

Warrant Officer
4,196
0
0
I can't read the whole of the Sunday Times article because if the paywall however the text has been cut and pasted on another site. I think this paragraph should not be overlooked.

The review will, however, include cuts to the Royal Navy and to Ministry of Defence management funding. Some military units will be forced to merge or disband, military bases will be closed and sold off and there will be more outsourcing. There will also be a reduction in training budgets and changes to military terms of service.

The article in the Scotsman is naive in its assumption that the clock can be turned back.

An unsurprising revelation I suppose.

I was involved in a conversation a few months back regarding the future of engineer training and a comment was made to the effect that our current training program falls a long way short of meeting the requirements for future aircraft the RAF (or what remains of it) is likely to procure, the F35 being the first of those.
I guess what was meant is that our training is heavily based on 1970/80s technology (because those are the platforms we have at our disposal) and the course is written and largely delivered by staff from that era. I work in the engine simulator facility and, at 15+ years old and Tornado based, its the newest technology thing we have at our disposal but even that is now getting out of date.
The solution to saving money at the moment is to try the Jenga approach to cutting the course lengths, i.e. remove material piece by piece as its seen to be no longer needed. The danger is failing to grasp the whole picture until, like a Jenga game, the whole things comes tumbling down. Furthermore it is almost invariably met with bottom lip wobbles from the 'older' staff who hate seeing their precious material, that stood them in good stead so it must still be right, removed from the course.
A whole new approach is needed and if budgetry constraints triggers a wholesale review of how we currently train our engineers then, in this respect alone, all the better IMHO.
 

Stevienics

Warrant Officer
1000+ Posts
4,931
107
63
Anyone else being dragged as a collective into a room and given the big picture tomorrow?
 

Spearmint

Ex-Harrier Mafia Member
1000+ Posts
3,461
269
83
An unsurprising revelation I suppose.

I was involved in a conversation a few months back regarding the future of engineer training and a comment was made to the effect that our current training program falls a long way short of meeting the requirements for future aircraft the RAF (or what remains of it) is likely to procure, the F35 being the first of those.

Well I suppose I'm very much a part (Albeit in a phase 3 environment) of this new future in Engineer Training as I'm approximately 1/4 of the way through the F35-B Avionics Course at Eglin AFB. The way this course is structured is nothing like I've experienced before and I've been fully Q'd 1st Line on a variety of platforms including Puma, Harrier, Tornado & Typhoon.

It's almost as if we are being trained to be the Monkey who pulls the lever when the light comes on, in order to receive a banana.
 

vim_fuego

Hung Like a Baboon.
Staff member
Administrator
Subscriber
1000+ Posts
12,275
461
83
Well I suppose I'm very much a part (Albeit in a phase 3 environment) of this new future in Engineer Training as I'm approximately 1/4 of the way through the F35-B Avionics Course at Eglin AFB. The way this course is structured is nothing like I've experienced before and I've been fully Q'd 1st Line on a variety of platforms including Puma, Harrier, Tornado & Typhoon.

It's almost as if we are being trained to be the Monkey who pulls the lever when the light comes on, in order to receive a banana.

I've experienced similar whilst flying with the US Navy...on a Nimrod the crew not only learned how to operate their espective kit but also how it worked and did what it did...we built radars and were examined to the n'th degree and were checked annually to make sure those skills didn't fade...I once flew a mission on a P3 out of Kef and asked the radar operator why he had the time to snooze whilst on task...he said that he'd shut the radar down as this light had come on...I asked him what he'd tried to get it working again and he Said that he didn't know what the ligh meant but when it came on his day was over...astounding lack of knowledge and nouse!
 

needsabiggerfuse

Flight Sergeant
1,880
0
0
This was written in 1939 by Charles Jennings. I would suggest it is even more relevant today.

The Sabre Tooth Curriculum

There was once a man named New-Fist-Hammer-Maker. New-Fist was a man of thoughtful action in spite of the fact that there was very little to think deeply about in his environment. He made a name for himself by producing a very fine version of the pear-shaped chipped-stone tool anthropologists call the coup-de-poing, or fist-hammer. New-Fist was pretty handy with other weapon production as well and his fire-using techniques were patterns of precision and simplicity.

Anyway, New-Fist knew how to do things his community needed to get done and he had the energy and the drive to go ahead and do them. By virtue of these characteristics Hammer-Fist was what was called ‘an educated man’.

However, he was also a thinker (education and thinking, then as now, were not necessarily bedfellows). When the others in his community gorged themselves on the proceeds of a successful hunt and vegetated in a dull stupor for days after, New-Fist ate a little less heartedly, slept a little less stupidly, and got up a little earlier than his tribe. He woke early to sit and think.

This thinking led New-Fist to catch glimpses of the way in which life could be made a little better for his community. By virtue of this thinking, he became a not only an educated man, but a dangerous man as well.

His thinking led New-Fist to hit upon the concept of a conscious, systematic education. He’d been watching the children play at the entrance of the cave. New-Fist noted that they seemed to have no purpose other than the immediate pleasure in the activity itself. He compared the children’s’ activity with that of the adults in the community. The children played for fun. The adults worked for the security and enrichment of their lives. The children protected themselves from boredom; the adults protected themselves from danger.

New-Fist thought “if only I could get these children to do the things that will give more and better food, shelter, clothing and security I would be helping the tribe have a better life”. The children, when they grow up, will have more meat to eat, more skins to keep them warm, better caves to sleep in, and less danger from the striped death with curving white teeth that prowls at night ...

Having set his educational goals, New-Fist proceeded to construct a curriculum for teaching them.

His first curriculum subject was fish-grabbing-with-the-bare-hands. The tribe had always caught fish in the big pool around the river bend in this way.

The tribe also caught little woolly horses by clubbing them. Woolly horse meat was one of the staples in their diet. So woolly-horse-clubbing became the second curriculum subject.

Finally, old New-Fist introduced his coup-de-grace, sabre-toothed-tiger-scaring-with-fire. The tribe had always scared away the ‘striped death’ with fire sticks.

New-Fist then put his curriculum into action.

However, he ran into some opposition. Some of the more conservative tribal elders took exception to the contents of New-Fist’s curriculum. Some maintained that New-Fist was going against the natural order of things. However, New-Fist won out and fish-grabbing-with-the-bare-hands, woolly-horse-clubbing and sabre-toothed-tiger-scaring-with-fire led them into the brave new world.

DEALING WITH CHANGE

However a new Ice Age approached. As the glacier came down from the north, the river silted up and it was impossible to see into the muddy water to catch fish with bare hands. Moreover for some years the fish had been getting more timid, agile and intelligent. The stupid, clumsy, brave fish had all been caught years ago. Only the fish with superior intelligence and agility were left. These smart fish hid under the boulders and in the depths of the muddy stream. No matter how good a man’s fish-grabbing-with-the-bare-hands education had been, he couldn’t grab fish when he couldn’t find fish to grab.

The water from the approaching glacier also made the ground damper. The Woolly Horses went east to the dry ground. Their place was taken by little antelope who were far too speedy for the tribe to catch to club to death. Even the best educated Horse-Clubbers, with the best clubbing techniques, returned empty-handed. You can’t club horses when there are no horses to club.

Finally to complete the disruption of their Palaeolithic life and education a new dampness in the air gave the Sabre-Toothed tigers pneumonia, and they died. In their place New-Fist’s tribe had to face a new, more ferocious danger in the glacial bears that took their place. And glacial bears weren’t afraid of fire…..

So tiger-scaring, horse-clubbing and fish-catching simply became academic exercises for the tribe.... things had moved on.

Some of the younger men of the New-Fist breed forgot what they had been taught in their formal training, began to think in a radical and practical manner and developed new ways to catch fish, one even developed a net. Others developed new ways to catch horses by bending young trees over and hanging noose vines on them. Another young man forgot what he had been taught and dug a big pit to catch the bears in.

They practices these new approaches, refined them, and were always ready to try a newer, more efficient or effective approach.

And they shared their new learning with their colleagues through their conversations, so the new practices became widespread. “These new activities of net-making, snare-setting, and pit-digging are indispensable to modern existence”, they said. "Why can't they be taught formally?"

However, the wise elders replied:

“What have practical activities got to do with school and training? Anyway, the curriculum is too full to add any more….”

“Moreover, the things we teach our people are not for any direct practical purposes. We don’t teach fish-grabbing to catch fish. We teach it to develop a generalised agility which can never be developed by mere training. Education is timeless. It is something that endures through changing conditions like a solid rock, standing firmly in the middle of a raging torrent.”

The young men persisted a little in their questioning. "Fish-net-making and using, antelope-snare construction and operation, and bear-catching and killing”, they pointed out "require intelligence and skills - things we claim to develop in our training. They are also activities we need to know about. Why can't we teach them?"

But most of the tribe, and particularly the wise old men who controlled the education system, smiled indulgently at this suggestion. "That wouldn't be education" they said. "It would be mere training".
 

Witty_Banter

Flight Sergeant
1,558
22
38
The solution to saving money at the moment is to try the Jenga approach... the danger is failing to grasp the whole picture until, like a Jenga game, the whole things comes tumbling down.


Engineering isn't alone in this respect, I have seen your 'Jenga' approach (I like that, very apt) applied accross the military in several areas for almost a decade. As a Force, we've all seen it and just 'cracked on' as per the training, but I have the feeling we are getting dangerously close to that final brick!
 

techie_tubby

Warrant Officer
2,050
1
0
P8s to Lossiemouth, Typhoons extended to 2040 with 2 new Sqns created and armed drones increased from 10 to 20.

No idea where they expect to fit the P8s, unless they buy out the farmers round Losdie and expand.
 

techie_tubby

Warrant Officer
2,050
1
0
No news yet but the full SDSR isn't released until Friday. Navy have lost HMS Ocean and are only getting 8 of their new Global Combat ships instead of 13.
 

Max Reheat

Resident Drunk
1000+ Posts
1,375
15
38
That's a hell of a lot of leaning to do to stretch us out to that many new aircraft. On the plus side they have a few years to recruit and train a bunch of new people.
 

Stevienics

Warrant Officer
1000+ Posts
4,931
107
63
Oh ye of little faith. It'll be fine - told you.

Unless you're a rock - but that's just an inkling I have.
 

Witty_Banter

Flight Sergeant
1,558
22
38
Hmm, Army needs more bods, how many bods in the Regt? If it happens, I hope they take all their airfield guarding duties with them - don't fancy a big surge in DWRs to cover that little lot!

Glad that the MPA won't be coming to Waddo - there's not enough infrastructure here for those that already live here! We'd have to construct a tent city on the runway (in amongst the construction work).
 

vim_fuego

Hung Like a Baboon.
Staff member
Administrator
Subscriber
1000+ Posts
12,275
461
83
I ain;t buying the Lossie location just yet...Big jets and many little jets all trying to operate and train (circuits) at the same time is a right pain.

Have I read right that HMS Ocean will be going?
 
Top