PVR's

[DEADHEAD]

what he said!?

 

[MattBombHead]

There was 'a letter' sent out from AOC A4 about 10 days ago, and apparently by AOC A6 too.

I'd suggest speaking to your CoC if you haven't had sight of them, and you come under those 'trade groups'

 

[techie_tubby]

You can find them on the Eng branch site on the intranet.

 

[MightyFrodo]

PVR's

The way the MoD/Government keep chipping away at my pay/pension I'll need to get a paper round to subsidise my wages. I've been biting my tongue since the pi55 poor release of the NEM due to the fact opening my big gob normally ends up with me bulling my naughty boy shoes and standing in front of The Man.

Regarding PVR's has anyone else heard of certain people hitting the release button then getting offered the posting/Role of their choice to get them to reconsider their decision? I definitely know of one at the tactical mushroom farm in North York’s and at least one at the Non Tech School of Radio Training in the Mids.

I saw the letter from Obi one cloud Commander who was telling us not to worry, things COULD change in the next few years and we're all in it together; well we're not really are we? Your 100k is safe in the bank and with that amount of annual pay I suspect a pension is not something you’d worry about too much.

Like a few others on here I’m not far off my 22 year point and up until a couple of weeks back I had numerous secondary duties and I was a member of certain high profile clubs/committees, well all but two of them are gone now and for the next 3 years when not doing my associated duties I will be doing things to help with my career away from the RAF.
Well after my little rant I’ll throw a question out there; should officers do a minimum 4 year tour and if they did would the trade (tg4) be in the mess it’s in? Personally I think if the trade had had an officer who was there from the start to finish of the NEM debacle then we may have had a fighting chance, but due to the 12-18 months officers seem to do it looks like someone dropped the ball when fighting in our corner.

 

[Witty_Banter]

Officer tour lengths have always narked me, particularly if you're one of those people who ends up stuck in a crappy tour slot for 5 years+ but has managed to accumilate 5 different 2ROs on your SJARs...

My only concern now is whether I can keep below the radar for the remaining 7 years. I'm willing to sit on my thumbs on minimal effort, rather then push the button, to get my 22 and £. I'd be most disgruntled if I choose to not to eject, only to find myself booted before my last tour!

 

[Jack Of All]

"I'm willing to sit on my thumbs on minimal effort"

Habit of a lifetime for you WB

 

[Witty_Banter]

"I'm willing to sit on my thumbs on minimal effort"

Habit of a lifetime for you WB

It's not a habit, I'll have you know I'm fully qualified and highly experienced in that particular method of working...

 

[FOGHORN LEGHORN]

It's not a habit, I'll have you know I'm fully qualified and highly experienced in that particular method of working...

SQEP then...


This message was sent using my thumb.

 

[Witty_Banter]

SQEP then...


This message was sent using my thumb.

It's written all over my SJAR...

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Well you're not getting promoted this year!!!

You have a clue what you're doing............... DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[SCUBA_Steve]

The way the MoD/Government keep chipping away at my pay/pension I'll need to get a paper round to subsidise my wages. I've been biting my tongue since the pi55 poor release of the NEM due to the fact opening my big gob normally ends up with me bulling my naughty boy shoes and standing in front of The Man.

Regarding PVR's has anyone else heard of certain people hitting the release button then getting offered the posting/Role of their choice to get them to reconsider their decision? I definitely know of one at the tactical mushroom farm in North York’s and at least one at the Non Tech School of Radio Training in the Mids.

I saw the letter from Obi one cloud Commander who was telling us not to worry, things COULD change in the next few years and we're all in it together; well we're not really are we? Your 100k is safe in the bank and with that amount of annual pay I suspect a pension is not something you’d worry about too much.

Like a few others on here I’m not far off my 22 year point and up until a couple of weeks back I had numerous secondary duties and I was a member of certain high profile clubs/committees, well all but two of them are gone now and for the next 3 years when not doing my associated duties I will be doing things to help with my career away from the RAF.
Well after my little rant I’ll throw a question out there; should officers do a minimum 4 year tour and if they did would the trade (tg4) be in the mess it’s in? Personally I think if the trade had had an officer who was there from the start to finish of the NEM debacle then we may have had a fighting chance, but due to the 12-18 months officers seem to do it looks like someone dropped the ball when fighting in our corner.

Interesting question, Barbara Kellerman picked up on the same point as a guest speaker at Hendon some years ago now. She suggested that perhaps commissioned postings should be driven by set goals/performance and not time. This was so that the company and team work would benefit over individual career progression.

 

[StickyFingers]

Interesting question, Barbara Kellerman picked up on the same point as a guest speaker at Hendon some years ago now. She suggested that perhaps commissioned postings should be driven by set goals/performance and not time. This was so that the company and team work would benefit over individual career progression.

I don't think that would work. Look at the NHS and its Waiting time targets stuff like that.

You'd just have the officers screwing you over more and fiddling the figures to make it look like he/she has surpassed their goals.

 

[Stevienics]

Doesn't work like that any more. After your phase 2 training, you're going to pick up at least 2 OOAs of 6 months, and the posting offers development . It makes absolute sense to keep a Flt Lt on the move until he's senior.

 

[Witty_Banter]

It makes absolute sense to keep a Flt Lt on the move until he's senior.

I have to disagree with that Stevie, I don't think it makes sense to move anyone around too much during their first couple of years in service. I've done time in the training environment as well as being on the recieving end of newly graduated officers as well as LACs, and from what I've seen, consistent disruption during the first 2 years of service (a deployment and associated courses / IPDT, TATs, CRP, etc) only serve to stop the incumbent from getting to grips with their primary role properly. There needs to be a period of calm after phase 2 so that what's been learnt can be effectively linked to the role within first tour. Without this, a lot of basic understanding taught at the phase 2 level can be lost because it's immediately replaced with more pressing things. I think there should be a minimum pause of 18 months between graduation and a first deployment, and at least 3 years per tour for all ranks (though a set 4 year tour with all posts rank-ranged would be far more sensible).

 

[Stevienics]

I know we will disagree on this - and it will be vigourously denied everywhere. A Junior' officer's primary role is to become useable, which they are not after Phase 2 training (and nor is anyone in practical terms). They will add very little to their new position beyond the generic flt cdr duties of the TOR, and even then they need to get wet quickly. For me, their primary role does not lie with the section they command in the first instance, but to become immersed in the Junior Officer experience.

 

[Ghandi's Flip-Flop]

Which would be fine if these wet behind the ears individuals ceded to their experienced SNCO'S. However the perceived need to make significant changes despite lacking the knowledge and experience to understand their consequences, has been firmly implanted by the phase two training you claim doesn't prepare them for their roles.

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

 

[Stevienics]

That's just angry talk. Resistance to change is perennial and the driver towards it is more often than not the agenda of the JO, but way above them. How they achieve that is what causes the problems.

No-one is prepared for the role they undertake, anywhere, ever. Including NCO's. Its the Peter Principle

 

[Max Reheat]

Which would be fine if these wet behind the ears individuals ceded to their experienced SNCO'S. However the perceived need to make significant changes despite lacking the knowledge and experience to understand their consequences, has been firmly implanted by the phase two training you claim doesn't prepare them for their roles.

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

The experienced SNCO's are flooding out of the exit door. I agree with the 3 year tours for JengOs. 2 years is too disruptive on the Sqns in my opinion, just when they show signs of competency they leave. 2 years might be good for the JengO but there's a bigger picture.

 

[Witty_Banter]

I know we will disagree on this - and it will be vigourously denied everywhere. A Junior' officer's primary role is to become useable, which they are not after Phase 2 training (and nor is anyone in practical terms). They will add very little to their new position beyond the generic flt cdr duties of the TOR, and even then they need to get wet quickly. For me, their primary role does not lie with the section they command in the first instance, but to become immersed in the Junior Officer experience.

Actually Stevie, I agree with you! Except for the 'junior officer experience' bit. It's pretty rare for phase 2 training to exactly mimic the working environment, if for no other reason than the genericness of current training (hmm, genericness, I may have made that word up...), but I suppose this could vary from trade to trade. For Int, a new Fg Off is no more useful than an LAC (perhaps less so) until they've got their head in the books and got some knowledge in their heads.

Ghandi's comment on using their SNCOs does have some merit (as 'angry talk' usually comes from some form of experience) - I've quite recently witnessed a JO completely ignore the 'suggestion' of an SAC, despite the SAC's accuracy (an SME or sorts, whose comments were based on experience and knowledge of a specific field). Some JOs do arrive at their first post with a modicum of arrogance, having recently commissioned, and this can (on occasion) lead to poor judgement. Hopefully the SNCOs that are flooding out the door (MaxR comment) are doing so because of the changes to conditions, rather than in response to the arrogance / ignorance of some new JOs.

Perhaps some form of 'probation period' would be of use for JOs - a sort of proving ground, where they're fulfilling the requirements that Stevie noted, but without filling a position of authority that they're not quite up to yet?

 

[muttywhitedog]

That's just angry talk. Resistance to change is perennial and the driver towards it is more often than not the agenda of the JO, but way above them.

And those people are also doing 2 year tours (or less), before moving along to reinvent the wheel in another area.