LEAN Where are we now

[230Tiger]

I actually think that the basic principle of LEAN is good. Lets face it, anything that looks at your ways of working and cuts out all the excess rubbish that you've been doing has got to be a good thing.

HOWEVER

The way the Royal (not ****ing expeditionary!!) Air Force are implementing it is the reason it gets peoples backs up.
The trouble is we are trying to carry out LEAN with the over-riding agenda of getting rid of personnel. As has been said that is not LEANs fault. For instance, you could carry out a LEAN event and come to the conclusion that, if you had one more person you could do the job much more effectively only to be told that in fact you WILL in fact be losing two people, but you still have to make the job more effective!!

At Odiham the Primary teams were LEANed into a pulse line. The new improved pulse line did a wonderful job and carried out primary's in the prescibed ten days, hooray! Only trouble was the pulse team were kicking out unservicable aircraft that the Sqn had to then make servicable. Now, surprise, surprise we have 20 civilian workers to assist the primary team. Some of you are now saying - well they didn't ask for the right amount of people at the LEAN event in the first place. Let me tell you they were asked for, only to be told "you can't justify that amount of people" "emerging work can be carried out by the squadron night shift" Yeah right, i think they'll be able to fit that in between 04:00 and 04:30!

LEAN = Works
RAF LEAN = ******

 

[Tashy_Man]

I don't know much about lean, but I know how to spot knickers in a twist when I see 'em!
(Clasps handbag to chest, adopts side on stance with pouty lips and goes "oooOOOooohh!")

You don't know a chap by the name of Bruce do you?

So you are saying you are in the same "camp" as sausage2 ??

 

[230Tiger]

LEAN Where are we now

In a shrinking, leaky boat, up a very smelly creak, with one paddle and slippery hands!

 

[Barney]

The problem with lean is that it analyses your 80% or bread n butter tasks but it's the other 20% that we rely on to do the job.

I'd like to be there the first time someone says "I'm sorry sir but we can't go to war unless we first conduct a VSA to justify the manpower"

The waste they so often identify is the processes we've developed over the years so we can keep the show rolling along when the s*** hits the fan.

 

[Tashy_Man]

The problem with lean is that it analyses your 80% or bread n butter tasks but it's the other 20% that we rely on to do the job.

I'd like to be there the first time someone says "I'm sorry sir but we can't go to war unless we first conduct a VSA to justify the manpower"

The waste they so often identify is the processes we've developed over the years so we can keep the show rolling along when the s*** hits the fan.

Not a war...but a det due soon.....I for one will be saying it can't happen...i know of at least 2 knobs that will "make it so" ....WO and JENGO.......

Those that know me will know who/why and why i say what i do ( i am the voice of the RAF cause I DON'T CARE anymore)...too fed up with arses in charge

 

[MrMasher]

Spot on there wildweasel.
I fully agree with you.
You have captured what I would have said and done it in a well laid out succinct manner!
I think the only point I would like to add is that you have to make sure that whoever runs the event (shop floor worker) has a strong enough character to stand up to the upper echelons who poo poo the great ideas that are presented.
DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[I look like Bruce Willis]

Well said Wild Weasel, you make a pleasant change from all the naysayer that normally post on here. Let’s get some serious LEAN discussions going on here.

LEAN is a philosophy of focussing on continuous improvement. It is aimed at the near-elimination of defects from every process, transaction & product by eliminating the various elements of waste and reducing variation. In addition, it focuses at understanding both internal, as well as external, customer needs, analysing business processes. So please someone explain why this is not seen as a good thing by many in today’s RAF.

 

[Scaley brat]

Why do you say it's an American thing? IT STARTED IN JAPAN!!!!!! came in long before ISO9000 as is still going strong afterwards!

Why can't you stupid people get it through your heads that Lean is the way forward and WORKS. the only thing that doesn't work is our Air Force.
Lean is a philosphy, a better way of working - no-one can say that Lean methods are worse than our old ways, it's simply not true.

Lazy stupid managers who don't like change since it shows everything they haven't been paying attention. There is little lean can do that common sense shouldn't have done already.

How about we look at some Home truths?

"It started in Japan".
Yes it did, in a MANUFACTURING plant where the process is identical each time through. We are involved in RECTIFICATION

"Why can't you stupid people get it through your heads that Lean is the way"
Because LEAN is a tool and like any other tool it can cause tremendous damage in the wrong hands. (For wrong hands see my final comment). We don't appreciate being called stupid either.

" Lean is a philosophy, a better way of working",
Grow up, it's being used to get rid of manpower" True. We've already shed manpower, through redundancy packages and natural wastage. Lean transformations are about MAKING SAVINGS end of story.

" no-one can say that Lean methods are worse than our old ways, it's simply not true."
Yes we can, LEAN is forcing us to do more than we did before with less in fact, if it weren't for people "making do" we would be in big trouble. Lean just takes away the things that help us do our job, locally held spares etc.

" Lazy stupid managers who don't like change since it shows everything they haven't been paying attention"
Anyone against LEAN is automatically branded stupid. I think Hitler used a similar approach in 1933

" There is little lean can do that common sense shouldn't have done already"
The ONLY sensible thing you have said.
FYI the Air Force worked fine before LEAN. All we needed to do was reduce our wastage. That would save almost as much money has LEAN without wrecking the Air Force to achieve it. What's next, civilianisation of front line servicing ? I for one hope not !

In my experience the only people who embrace LEAN so quickly and deeply are the ones see it as a fast track to further their own careers.
Both WildWeasel and I look like Bruce Willis need to take a good look at themselves and examine their reasons for being involved. I suspect though that the nail was well and truly struck on the head

 

[WildWeasel]

How about we look at some Home truths?

"It started in Japan".
Yes it did, in a MANUFACTURING plant where the process is identical each time through. We are involved in RECTIFICATION

" no-one can say that Lean methods are worse than our old ways, it's simply not true."
Yes we can, LEAN is forcing us to do more than we did before with less in fact, if it weren't for people "making do" we would be in big trouble. Lean just takes away the things that help us do our job, locally held spares etc.

...

" There is little lean can do that common sense shouldn't have done already"
The ONLY sensible thing you have said.
FYI the Air Force worked fine before LEAN. All we needed to do was reduce our wastage. That would save almost as much money has LEAN without wrecking the Air Force to achieve it. What's next, civilianisation of front line servicing ? I for one hope not !

In my experience the only people who embrace LEAN so quickly and deeply are the ones see it as a fast track to further their own careers.
Both WildWeasel and I look like Bruce Willis need to take a good look at themselves and examine their reasons for being involved. I suspect though that the nail was well and truly struck on the head

We are not involved in rectification, we are involved in flying aircraft and fighting wars - Lean does not merely play in the engineering circles - it will be everywhere eventually. the principle apply in any process, and the basic organisational techniques are applicable to anywhere. My desk is laid out using lean principles, even my fridge is kanbaned.

Of course lean is about doing more with less - tha main reason, because less is all we have and we sill have to do the same as before. The point is that not only can we do more with less - but that we have to. we no longer have the resources.

You say that all we have to do is reduce our waste -THIS IS WHAT LEAN IS ALL ABOUT!!!!! getting rid of the waste and leaving in everything we have to do. The air force did not work fine before. We made it work, and as good as we are at working around a problem and getting it done, we have to start to attack the root problems because we don't have the fat to absorb failures anymore.

Lean is not furthering my career- my professionalism is. if anything, it's furthering my bosses career, my reasons for being involved are simple- I want a better air force, and the only way I'll have a job in 10 years is if the airforce survives that long - so I'm going to save enough now to save myself if nothing else.

 

[230Tiger]

I want a better air force, and the only way I'll have a job in 10 years is if the airforce survives that long

Are you seriously suggesting that the UK won't have an armed force anymore?

I heard a certain S/L (you all know who he is!!) suggesting that "if we (RAF Chinooks) couldn't do the job cheaply enough then maybe another organisation would be able to (He mentioned the Dutch)". Are we really looking at having a mercenary armed forces? Do we come to a conflict and look around for the lowest bidder to go and fight for us! Bollox do we.

Another government will come in and change everything again, come up with some other plan or (you never know) decide that we are in fact trying to act as a first world power with a third world budget then make the decision as to whether to keep the budget as it is and reduce our commitments to actually defending this country or increase the budget to meet the worldwide commitments.

 

[fat lazy techie]

If you ask me laen is an absolute crock of poo, from what I've seen of it anyway. It makes no sense to merge two fleets of, essentially the same but very very different, aircraft and reduce the amount of people keeping them flying. That's when mistakes happen and the workload escelates to rectify things. If I recall many sorties were missed at the wilts air base thanks to this. Now the fleets have split again, for the better, I'm sure the amount of lost sorties has reduced significantly. Chopping the supply staff so the techies have to trot off to tech stores to pick up items, rather than removing the u/s bits of kit and having the "S" bits ready and waiting to be fitted delivered to where they are needed, increases the time it takes to generate a servicable assett ready to "project air power" where it's needed.

I've seen people worked to the point of dropping thanks to lean.

If you ask me ILLBW & WW are just a pair of career seeking w@nkers of yes men who spend no time at the pointy end doing the work. I suggest you give it a try and see how you like it. Any complaints and I suggest you direct them to www.shutthefcukupyoupairofcnuts.com.

 

[Disillusioned]

The point is that not only can we do more with less - but that we have to. we no longer have the resources.

To me that says that as it's got nothing to do with LEAN making the RAF better but the people in the RAF and our "Can do" attitude.

From what I've seen and heard of LEAN in typical RAF fashion the management have gone about things in the wrong way again. Instead of looking at a process and seeing how efficient that exact same process could be made they've set an imaginary figure in their heads about how long the process should take (naturally shorter than the original time span) and re-designed the process to fit the new time scale.

I'll use the 2nd line servicing of an aircraft as an example. Instead of looking at the work involved in a major or minor and seeing how to make that work more efficient they've started with a timescale, naturally it's shorter than the original timescale to give a visible indication of these "efficiencies" and they've butchered the servicing schedule to fit then new timescale and then they cut a bit extra out so that aswell as cutting time they can cut manpower. Great, now you have a streamlined 2nd line facility. Except the aircraft still has to have the same work carried out on it that it always has so it gets picked up by the squadrons. Do the squadrons get extra manpower to help with the increased workload? Nope, of course not. As well as picking up the work originally carried out at 2nd line there are often penalty servicing factors now introduced because the frequency tasks were carried out are not the same anymore. When sections go through a LEAN process it seems the LEAN team only concentrate on LEANing that facility as best they can without considering the knock on effects to the rest.

In principle LEAN could be a good thing, but it can't be applied to all aspect in the RAF the way it was invented and a lot of the problem lies with the people implementing it and the way they go about it.

As for your comment about us not being involved in rectification but in flying aircraft and fighting wars I find that a very short sighted way of looking at things, especially if you can't see the difference between the way LEAN was created by the Japanese (Toyota I believe but may be wrong). LEAN was a way of making car production more efficient. A situation where you're putting, freshly made, always working, brand new components together. The RAF is trying to apply it to jobs where you're working with old components and even older aircraft and it's come at the detriment of the quality of product being produced. Where as before, major jobs that were considered too big to realistically be carried out on a squadron were deferred to minor etc in order to meet the flying programme you'll now find aircraft are going into minor with faults deferred until then and they're just having the faults deferred back to the squadrons, not always the one where it came from because there isn't the time or manpower in the new LEAN 2nd line for this work to be carried out.

There's a time and a place for LEAN and I don't think this is it.

 

[WildWeasel]

If you ask me ILLBW & WW are just a pair of career seeking w@nkers of yes men who spend no time at the pointy end doing the work. I suggest you give it a try and see how you like it. Any complaints and I suggest you direct them to www.shutthefcukupyoupairofcnuts.com.

As far as pointy end work goes - Thats where we all come from. I'm a fairy, experienced on 2nd and 1st line, both on Tonkas. Before I came into the Lean world, I was already sick and tired of working around the same problem over and over again, making the same complaints but seeing nothing happen. Now I'm changing it for the better - solving these problems. It isn't going to get me promoted or give me a better posting. It's a job. Everyone on Core Lean teams is recently experienced in their trades, and the event teams are people from the work area - so things that aren't working are really the fault of the people doing the job. If you have something to say about how you do your job, and you can back it up, it will be listened to.

But really, saying that Techies now have to collect their own stuff instead of the stackers delivering it on time - how often did that happen before? most anti Lean complaints are simply the old ones recylced.

At the end of the day it's happening, if you really don't like it, then you know where the door is. else get with it, get involved. You'd be surprised how successful it can be.

 

[MrMasher]

Lean is for brand new cars, blah blah blah!!

Ever heard of the phrase Improvise Adapt Overcome?

Thats what you should be doing with your lean. Adapt it to suit your workplace requirements. You dont have to follow it to the letter bleating about it all the way. Adapt it to put in place improvements you have always wanted implement.

Unfortunately it seems to be the upper echelons that manage to biff it all up for us.

Once you are up and running and find that something doesnt work like its supposed to, change it. It isnt a one off event.

My personal fave is the "I have heard all about lean and in my opinion its........"

Its coming everywhere, not just Sqn's and hangars. PSF, Supply, etc etc.

When we did our bay 3 yrs ago it was pretty good because we had free reign to do what we wanted. We went from 7 people down to 3 and still managed to churn out enough equipment.

Carried out with a bit of common sense and objectivity it can work.

DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[3wheeledtechie]

When sections go through a LEAN process it seems the LEAN team only concentrate on LEANing that facility as best they can without considering the knock on effects to the rest.

- Untrue, in any engineering environment there is virtually always an effect on supply, which is why a supplier is part of the team on virtually every event. This of course is putting considerable strain currently on Supply, but this is preferable to implementing solutions that they are unable to sustain.

In principle LEAN could be a good thing, but it can't be applied to all aspect in the RAF the way it was invented and a lot of the problem lies with the people implementing it and the way they go about it.

The people implementing it are normally subject matter experts who carry out the work on a daily basis, plus maybe a supplier, possibly someone who may be regarded as a customer for that asset, plus a wildcard from often a different TG who may bring a different way of looking at things.

The role of the facilitator, and if required, consultant (generally for event wk only) is to guide the team through the event, providing tools as required to resolve problems in the workplace / meet the original aims of the event.

 

[Scaley brat]

The people implementing it are normally subject matter experts who carry out the work on a daily basis, plus maybe a supplier, possibly someone who may be regarded as a customer for that asset,

No mate, they are normally workshy types looking for a quick promotion

The role of the consultant .........

Is to earn money for his parent company and ultimately himself.

Please God save us from fans of LEAN and may they all burn in a hell of their own making ::

 

[Rigga]

Sorry to stick my civvy nose in, again, but I am sure you have missed some prime points that should be re-stated;

1. You may have had training in LEAN techniques but were you told what the targets of this LEAN drive was/were? and how any changes/reductions were to be performed? (This gets you all "On-Side" and willing to do the work)

2. You keep blaming "the management" but you do you really know what the management were told to do with the results of LEAN? Are they told just to cut back for money's sake, or is it manpower too? (You feed the info to the managers who then put their agenda to the results)

3. LEAN may be old but it still works for many other things other than Factory Production, and can be used for any process/procedure, as can Quality Assurance. (ILLBW and so-on are technically correct in saying it is a good technique or system!)

4. LEAN cutbacks only work if they are allowed to succeed, If there is a serious problem with manpower, the fault lies in your unerring ability to play the "Can-Do" card! (That is a compliment, by the way) Unfortunately, you are not allowed to break rules so cannot fight the resultant undermanning policy.

Now. Please carry on with your whinging and not doing anything about it.

 

[metimmee]

Now. Please carry on with your whinging and not doing anything about it.

What do you suggest we do about it Rigga?

 

[3wheeledtechie]

No mate, they are normally workshy types looking for a quick promotion

Not so, they don't get to nominate themselves, it is done by their management, and they have to meet certain criteria: ie certain minimum time in that workplace, not out on PVR, Tranche 3 etc.

 

[Rigga]

What do I suggest?

What do I suggest?

I said,

"LEAN cutbacks only work if they are allowed to succeed, If there is a serious problem with manpower, the fault lies in your unerring ability to play the "Can-Do" card! (That is a compliment, by the way) Unfortunately, you are not allowed to break rules so cannot fight the resultant undermanning policy."​

Unless you can get the big-Wigs to declare the real targets of LEAN, the best way is to let it fail under its own rules.

Unfortunately, this means people not employing the CAN-DO attitude, to by-pass the rules, or people voting with their feet adding to the mess already created by the shortages of this LEAN mis-management.

I am not advocating work-to-rule or rebellion, and I am not in the thick of it as you may be, but this is how it 'works' in civvy street.

From what I see and read, I really fear LEAN has already gone too far.