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LEAN Where are we now

C

CodeMonkey

Flight Sergeant
1,090
0
36
Rigga said:
From what I see and read, I really fear LEAN has already gone too far.
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I have to agree with my collegue and friend metimmee, work to rule in civvy street is one thing but we "always" do as much as humanly possible to the detriment of ourselves. None of us like to say no we can't we always find a way. Yes it's the wrong attitude in civvy street but in the forces we go one step beyond any of the work shy barstewards out there.

Lean has taken a production line culture and applied it to a non production line environment. it may work in some limited cases such as major servicing buf fails miserably in the "real world".

Sorry to rant
 
E

exerk

Guest
Rigga said:
I said,
"LEAN cutbacks only work if they are allowed to succeed, If there is a serious problem with manpower, the fault lies in your unerring ability to play the "Can-Do" card! (That is a compliment, by the way) Unfortunately, you are not allowed to break rules so cannot fight the resultant undermanning policy."​

Unless you can get the big-Wigs to declare the real targets of LEAN, the best way is to let it fail under its own rules.

Unfortunately, this means people not employing the CAN-DO attitude, to by-pass the rules, or people voting with their feet adding to the mess already created by the shortages of this LEAN mis-management.

I am not advocating work-to-rule or rebellion, and I am not in the thick of it as you may be, but this is how it 'works' in civvy street.

From what I see and read, I really fear LEAN has already gone too far.
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Lean is seemingly being applied in a way to reduce manpower, but while a civvy company can lean its workforce and consumables the Armed Forces need their manpower - which in the final analysis is a consumable resource.
 
S

supersquip

SAC
151
0
16
Rigga said:
I said,
"Unless you can get the big-Wigs to declare the real targets of LEAN, the best way is to let it fail under its own rules.

Unfortunately, this means people not employing the CAN-DO attitude, to by-pass the rules, or people voting with their feet adding to the mess already created by the shortages of this LEAN mis-management.

One problem althought i agree with what you are saying we are not in a position to let it fail the job still has to be done for example at odiham most of the assets are required out in afganistan so it has to be done lives are at steak

also i remember the lean event for clothing delivery a sysytem that has manageded to annoy upset and Pee everyone off from suppliers to even the green suited master race we where TOLD that the clothing counter was being done away with that it had already been decided above our pay scale this from oc supply and we where the mugs who had to come up with a solution despite 6 other units trying it and all reverting back within 6 months​
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3

3wheeledtechie

Sergeant
703
0
0
people voting with their feet adding to the mess already created by the shortages of this LEAN mis-management
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A LEAN event may be used to highlight failings in local management/resources and put in place visual management measures / robust processes which will highlight ongoing problems in a way that cannot be ignored. The purpose of sustainment is to ensure local management have resolved age-old problems and highlight to their management, at SO1 or whatever level, if they're not doing their job properly.
 
D

dodgysootie

Guest
Tashy_Man said:
Bit touchie there...maybe a bit of truth hurts ???

Crack on wheel of fortune techies....ALL WANK ...:pDT_Xtremez_09:
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Not touchy Tashy, just fookin trying. I know its wank, Just less than 2 years and counting. Lets get ****ed, Happy new year!
 
I Look Like Kevin Costner

I Look Like Kevin Costner

Grand Prix fanatic..
3,847
44
48
3wheeledtechie said:
A LEAN event may be used to highlight failings in local management/resources and put in place visual management measures / robust processes which will highlight ongoing problems in a way that cannot be ignored. The purpose of sustainment is to ensure local management have resolved age-old problems and highlight to their management, at SO1 or whatever level, if they're not doing their job properly.
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Like the LEANing of RAF Marham Second line and civilianization? Amazingly flexiblity of maintenance costs when people have to be paid "double time"!! Extra blue suits need posting in to cope with this sight problem?? Oh, by the way Jets are not getting maintained any faster!!
 
D

DrunkenMonki

Guest
I was at Marham through all the LEANing. Took part in four events, buts thats a different story...
I agree with LEAN's aims. We live in a world where money needs saving, and waste must be eliminated. Equally, i hold sentiments that people shouldn't live on streets, and that the gap between rich and poor is too wide. However communism did not work either, just like lean. Why? Human nature! All the events i took part in consisted (in the main) a group of people that resented being 'dcked', and had already pre concieved ideas that Lean would fail.
On the part of the areas we studied, the workforce would reliably over estimate times/resources etc as they were scared of being cut, unless it was in areas that knew civilianisation was coming, in which case they just didn't care!
We came up wityh all the ideas under the sun, but most got stopped dead by Officers, either straight away, or after a few months of effort that was not sustained.
I don't think theres a way to get a fully working Lean system runing without a massive change in outlook, and a corporate mentality shift away from cold war days and wastage.
 
I Look Like Kevin Costner

I Look Like Kevin Costner

Grand Prix fanatic..
3,847
44
48
DrunkenMonki said:
I was at Marham through all the LEANing. Took part in four events, buts thats a different story...
I agree with LEAN's aims. We live in a world where money needs saving, and waste must be eliminated. Equally, i hold sentiments that people shouldn't live on streets, and that the gap between rich and poor is too wide. However communism did not work either, just like lean. Why? Human nature! All the events i took part in consisted (in the main) a group of people that resented being 'dcked', and had already pre concieved ideas that Lean would fail.
On the part of the areas we studied, the workforce would reliably over estimate times/resources etc as they were scared of being cut, unless it was in areas that knew civilianisation was coming, in which case they just didn't care!
We came up wityh all the ideas under the sun, but most got stopped dead by Officers, either straight away, or after a few months of effort that was not sustained.
I don't think theres a way to get a fully working Lean system runing without a massive change in outlook, and a corporate mentality shift away from cold war days and wastage.
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The story of FIST at Cottesmore.... We've got a budget to improve everything>>>>no, we haven't. We will take in ideas from other station, but not bother to ask them what problems they have or research into what the effects of our situation effect these ideas >>> Boeing do it this way>>> But, we are not building Apachces!!!

You are correct that most personnel seconded to LEAN events really have had no interest in the development of the idea or were not up to the real mechanics of it. I took over a lean project and applied CPA and CAD principals to redesigning a work area of a bay. The CAD drawings I did were scaled and allowed for ergonomics to be applied. My Chief saw the drawings and laughed at them, stating how could I come to such conclusions. The room was changed and my guys went to work in it. The Chief asked them if they were happy to do the tasks in that layout. They thought it was logical.:pDT_Xtremez_30:
 
R

Roobsta

Corporal
206
0
0
Lean(er)

Lean(er)

to quote a previous correspondent "LEAN isn't about cutting manpower" TRUE

Manpower cuts were announced BEFORE the LEAN thing started at Marham. The flying Sqns WILL be cut from 140(ish) down to 115. This decision was made way, way above my pay grade before they actually asked us what manpower we could run with. This has bee forced on us and not done due to LEAN. I'm at 1st line and I agree that many of the ideas make sense. Occassionally we seem to be re-inventing the wheel. Remember the days when tool kits were in the HAS - they're now back, remember when we had a c-stores board with all the items on so you could quickly get the one you wanted - it's back (in a new form of a carousel, with a list by part no/ sec ref and item), and the good thing about it is that it's EXACTLY the same on all 4 Sqns. If an item is in bin 101 in your HES then it's in the same place somewhere else. The stackers now deliver the part to the HAS for you too. A lot of it is working - a whole heap more still needs tweaking.

And before any comments, I've done 21 years, am as cynical as hell but we do need to make it work FOR us. If that means not getting a job done, then unfortunately we'll have to prve it with graphs, bar charts and KPI's as just by shouting "it won't/doesn't work" doesn't work. We need to PROVE it to the higher-ups. Remember - there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

:pDT_Xtremez_28:
 
T

Tashy_Man

Tashied Goatee
5,457
0
0
Roobsta said:
to quote a previous correspondent "LEAN isn't about cutting manpower" TRUE

Manpower cuts were announced BEFORE the LEAN thing started at Marham. The flying Sqns WILL be cut from 140(ish) down to 115.
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Wow...115 on a sqn....now that would be nice.....3 weeks before christmas we had 18 people on shift...this included 1 civvy storeman, 10 SNCO's and above, 4 cpl's and 3 sac's (no J/T's as they have all been made acting cpl's).

The funny thing is the aircrew still expect to fly 4 turn 4 turn 4 or some other stupid prog with only 3 serviceable jets.
 
D

dkh51250

Sergeant
496
2
18
But to take roobstas comment on everything being the same on all sqns. How about going back a bit further and putting standardised telephone extensions back in place. Station Commander 201 PPC 264 Guardroom 252 etc. Life used to be much easier when it was a simple matter of dialling unit and then relevant extension.
 
F

Fablon biff chit

Guest
dkh51250 said:
But to take roobstas comment on everything being the same on all sqns. How about going back a bit further and putting standardised telephone extensions back in place. Station Commander 201 PPC 264 Guardroom 252 etc. Life used to be much easier when it was a simple matter of dialling unit and then relevant extension.
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Excellent idea, I didn't know that was once the way.
 
D

dkh51250

Sergeant
496
2
18
Certainly was, and you would be surprised how many telephone calls Staish got from new arrivals. Any question from them relating to extensions got the instant response "201 mate".
 
3

3wheeledtechie

Sergeant
703
0
0
How about going back a bit further and putting standardised telephone extensions back in place.
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Great idea, I'm all in favour, but as each stn has a differently structured civilian "partner" doing different parts of the job that used to be blue suit, can't see it happening.
 
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