Lean at Lyneham

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Skids

Did you make that post as a wind up? Have you actually read the implications of the lean process at Lyneham?

Look on the bright side young fella me lad, all the techies now know who you are and where you work, enjoy the wine drinking from a straw !

 

[Wg Cdr ComfeyChair-Smyth]

.....Smell the Coffee.....

.....Smell the Coffee.....

So when we talk about decreasing manpower/increase in tasking lets think about the knock on effect to the rest of the station and even other stations..... Has Lyneham really got it that bad?

Here's a litle then and now scenario for you skids, just to drag you back to reality.

October 02:

Work starts at 0700. I read in my diary that we have another engine change (with forsight make that 89 in total) I look at my manpower, 2 NCO's (Experienced and highly competent) 5 OR's with over 12 years Herc experience between them and 2 SNCO's who can adeptly manage the tasking that is set before them. I have recources available, sufficient spares and a logistics support that although adequate could do with some ammendment. I Lose one of my OR's to secondary duties such as tools stores or hangar managers biatch, but the lads crack on - 2 hours later we are thrashing the tits off the frame and the A/C is declared serviceable.

October 05:

Work starts at 0645: I first do a handover for the GMS (Basically, electronic documentation) side of it, I then do a trade hand over, because now I have 1 experienced NCO, 1 OR (relatively inexperienced - but keen) and thats the total summation of the shift personel at my disposal. I look in the Diary - we have an engine change - thankfully a rarer occasion nowadays, but hold on - It takes a minimum of 4 people to do an engine change - so I have to augment my team from personel, from HLS. As they are busy prepping A/C they cannot afford to release people till midday. Due to the nature of the task, several aspects require SNCO Independant inspections to be carried out ( for the unfamiliar, these require that the SNCO not take part in the execution of the task, so that he has an unbiased and totally (Independant) view of the job carried out). Suddenly my four strong team is a producer less. Now, seeing as I have a higher likelyhood of shagging Carpice in the local Matalan than finding a Propulsion SNCO's on The J aicraft, the tasking has now been delayed till the oncoming shift.

I check my resources and we have no stock of engines - we have to rob, funnily we find 4 serviceable engines in a hangar on the other side of the airfield which have not been brought on charge by the new sores system that we use.

The stores system are duly informed and we get one issued. Meanwhile the team, have already started to rob and engine from an aircraft that was out on the bays - as we have no hangar space to allocate the frame to as make it easier. The work stops on the doner aircraft and all work has to be rectifed, which now means running the doner aircraft. We try to arrange for a running team, but due to the implementation of LAMA where the authority to run the aircraft is documented - we find that we have no-one on shift authorised to run - so thats passed to the oncoming shift.

In the middle of all of this, I am tasked with generating the aircraft papwerwork for the other flyers - and my NCO, has just ended up falling arse over tit off a hi lo staging due to no safety barriers. This is after he spent the last hour towing it to an aircraft where it wasnt needed after all. Oh, and my other rank informs me he has to eat at least once a day or his doctor says he will die.

So its now 1945, I handed over more work than I took on, I have worked hard and long to achieve actually nothing and lost all of my manpower. No worries the oncoming shift can sort it - they need the A/C in 2 hours time and oh....dear... the oncoming shift has just 1 NCO.........I'm sure he can manage!

So has lyneham got it that bad - I'll leave you to decide.

But if you happen to have trouble reading this - wipe the sand from your eyes cos it looks as if thats where your heads been burried.

 

[sausage2]

October 05:

, because now I have 1 experienced NCO, 1 OR (relatively inexperienced - but keen) and thats the total summation of the shift personel at my disposal. .

Right where did you get them blokes from, and can I borrow them, cos that’s more than I was running with last shift. Me (on GMS again) and 1 J/T (on the rigger desk). Still it’s not like we've got loads of a/c to look after.

Coupled with that an unrealistic flying programme, Lack of any spares, a stores system that works Monday to Friday 9-5 and some bizarre decisions. It's only cos of the goodwill of the lads that’s sees any flying at all, and it's not going to last too much longer.


P.S that Simpler Guy can f*ck off as well, if I ever see him again, I’m going to set fire to the cnuts beard.

 

[Skids!]

Oops!

Oops!

Yes that was a bit of a wind up - knew someone would bite!

Its always a touchy subject as we know but at the end of the day i'd rather laugh than cry so where's the harm in a little trade banter?

Everyone knows the LEAN system is stressful but perhaps we don't all know how much or how heartfelt it obviously is.

 

[wobbly]

LEAN is a proven method of improving efficency, however, there is a time an place for it.

A military flight line can not work in this way, and this has been the downfall of LEAN at Lyneham. Of course, the overall blame from the powers will be shifted down to the SNCO's that have worked their nuts off to try and make things work. As the Wing co says in his post above, things got to a point where you felt truly helpless. Stress is a killer, and I can safely say that every NCO on Eng wing at Lyneham has OD'd on stress over the past 10 months.

Too many changes at Lyneham over the last 12 months has also dented ops.

• The LEAN machine buggered everyone up and shifted personnel around just before xmas 2004, meaning all yule tide cheer was non existant. MORALE BUGGERED FROM THE OFF. Working amongst a bunch of strangers at this time of year was a barrel of laughs. What was wrong with after Christmas? or was there another agenda to get it started before?
• Q-Courses to cross train people from K-J and J-K start popping up and we lose people to that.
• People start being sent on Cross Dressing Courses (assimulation courses) and this meant losing people for 4-6 weeks at a time.
• The J stores system was changed back to the RAF Supply system, and we couldnt get anything because everything suddenly became "No Item Record". This started a rob o rama and with the reduced manpower made it unbearable.
• The consistent Rapid Improvement Events kept on making changes every week pi$$ing people off even more as everything kept changing from shift to shift.
• The redundancy packages were announced and most SNCO's applied. When the results were announced we lost a fair amount of manpower. This meant that our manpower problem got worse. Morale plummets to all time low.
• New OC Eng arrives and everyone keeps fingers crossed.
• The second round of redundencies came along and we took a big hit, 40 more Eng NCO's lost........and we yet again sink lower, many thinking they are being hung out to dry as they are left as the only experienced people left.

There are many more incidents that happened and Im sure you lot can add to that.


Anyway, the way I see it is......

Why does Lyneham have to have these Aircrew Only Squadrons?????

Heres an Idea, Lets 'can' a K and a J Sqn, leaving say 24 J and 47 K. Change the system at Lyneham and have

24 Sqn Aircrew and Groundcrew

47 Sqn Aircrew and Groundcrew

This would give the engineering side something to aspire to, a Sqn identity at last. It would mean frequent social events where the aircrew and the groundcrew got to know each other. It would also grow a mutual respect between us all.

It works on fast jets, so why not here.....it also works on VC10s, Tristars and C17's so Ive been told. So why is it that we at lyneham have to be badged with shit names like FLECS, HLS, BLSS, ALSS, and all these stupid fooking acronyms and names.

Now I for sure would love to be working under a Sqn number with a Sqn Ethos and history to live upto. However, Ive got to work in a stupid fooking section with a stupid fooking name.......24 Sqn.....sounds fooking good to me

/soapboxmode

 

[Rigga]

Hi Guys,
I'm an outsider who left the RAF a few years ago (as Laarbruch closed.)
I am now in a "Senior" engineer position at a major charter airline. I apologise now for butting in to this forum but I think I can make a valid contribution.

If the Moderator's don't like what I write they can edit it out and I won't take offence. (well not too much anyway!)


It is all well and good getting these thoughts aired, and into the Ether; but what are you doing about it?

All MOD-type manning reviews (and hair-brained 'good idea' schemes) used to be collated at the Station concerned, usually by someone in Eng Wing or somewhere like that. The measurment of success of this period must be by producing the required number of aircraft on time, or within an acceptable lapse of time. A failure to produce aircraft can only be a failure and then appropriate actions 'should' be taken to improve production to the required rate.

WgCo Cumphy Chair stated earlier that the flying program was unfeasable - No aircrew would ever accept that statement - they would all agree "they" can do it! It is the engineers that stops them!

What is (apparently) unfeasable is the "Maintenance" Program behind this flying program.

In civvy street a maintenance program is changed to suit the type of operation the aircraft is flying:
If it is a low-hours (e.g. hundreds per year) operation, to and from one airfield, it may only require low volume maintenance.
If it isa high-Hours (...Thousands per year) and going down-route for ten days at a time, and crossing large sea water areas for many flights. It will require much more maintenance and perhaps more inspections too.

This is the first point you must consider:

Is the maintenance now being carried out suitable for the type of Flying program being operated?

Given that the aircraft are being pushed to the limit; this must mean that the engineering work is also pushed to the same limit or beyond (there cannot be less work!). Therefore; reductions in manpower can only be replaced by longer working hours or longer downtime. Another alternative is to do "maintenance" at the Downroute stations saving return sectors, but this means sending troops downline for longer periods and further exacerbationg the manpower problem.​

There can also be a change in the way you work; in that, to make it less time consuming for the Techies - the Support staff should move closer to the line and be more of a SUPPLY system; delivering, to the engineer, those tools and equipment and spares he/she requires! Spread that about stores and see the reactions you get!​

Secondly; the point of being part of a Squadron.
Most RAF units have an integral groundcrew staff and this does build a completely different view to the work required "For the Squadron". Lyneham aircrews have always missed the point of this and it has shown in the poor state of the aircraft and the relationship between air and ground crews. I know the engineers do their best, and this does not reflect on them personally, but if they(you) had more "ownership" of a small fleet; they(you) would perform with more interest! Similarly, if the aircrew had a better contact and understanding of how ground crew are pressed they would respond in some way (Good or bad!).

(These "us and them" problems still happen in civvie life, so don't think its perfect out here.)

Finally:
One of you must know a Rodney that either is, has a path to, the recorder/driver of this LEAN machinery?
How is this machinery recording these problems/defects/shortfalls?
How can you report them to the system?
Have you got/can you produce evidence for the system to see?
What suggestions (and plans if necessary) have been put to this LEAN scheme driver?

I apologise again if these seem rather obvious, or even condescending, statements - I don't know what has been voiced, or actions taken, prior to this forum. But it does seem that something should be done as an action and not just in words of complaint on a web site.

 

[wobbly]

Hi fella, all your comments are most welcome.


There has been what we call "Rapid Improvement Events" (RIE) which are carried out at regular intervals. These RIE's are week long events made up of people that actually carry out the job and their task is to try and make the section they are given more efficient. These have been going on since early this year and some good has come out of them, however, losing all the most experienced personnel to redundancy has floored my particular section.

As I said in my previous post, we don;t have the luxury of posting in experienced personnel to replace these people as the aircraft has only been in service since December 1999. I also said in a previous post that there has been too many changes throughout the year and the redundancies have all come totally at the wrong time in my opinion as we now have to motivate a team which knows that they are losing 40 men, and they also know things are going to get harder, much harder. This coupled with all the changes, extra commitments to guard, our Op Telic det, Aircraft rescues, leave, courses, and all the other things leaves us feeling pretty much down in the dumps.

Just remember, we are lucky to have 4 men on shift in my trade, and that includes the NCO's. So for all those people out there that think that its just a techy whinge, you only have to look how many stackers we have on shift.....4, the same as me. And I still have to collect my spares and props from the other side of the Airfield.

Its mad, its stressfull, and not much fun at the moment. Things have become more than a stretch, its become a PVR incentive. They dont pay me enough money to put up with this. Ah well, Nearly have my degree....another 2 and a half years to do in the mob to get my pension.....I just have to grin and bear it, thats if I dont end up in a box before hand

 

[Rigga]

Wobbly,
Thanks for the welcome.

I appreciate the lack of Manpower is going to keep you very busy but , from my experiences at many stations including FI, "experience" is what you will get very rapidily!

Many civvies do the same amount of work as you describe with a little less hassle (no "duties") and manage quite well most of the time. An average shift for 12 aircraft is five or six engineers - of all (both) trades.

Sometimes the aircraft aren't designed to be user friendy, but then that can be a sign of the maintenance being out of Kilter with the type of Ops as well.

Keep your mind on the End-Game and get your Degree!

 

[Rigga]

Wobbly,
Thanks for the welcome.

I appreciate the lack of Manpower is going to keep you very busy but , from my experiences at many stations including FI, "experience" is what you will get very rapidily!

Many civvies do the same amount of work as you describe with a little less hassle (no "duties") and manage quite well most of the time. An average shift for 12 aircraft is five or six engineers - of all (both) trades.

Sometimes the aircraft aren't designed to be user friendy, but then that can be a sign of the maintenance being out of Kilter with the type of Ops as well.

Keep your mind on the End-Game and get your Degree!

 

[Weebl]

Many civvies do the same amount of work as you describe with a little less hassle (no "duties") and manage quite well most of the time. An average shift for 12 aircraft is five or six engineers - of all (both) trades.

Hi

I can see where you are coming from but perhaps a little more enlightenment.

We have twice that amount of aircraft and about the same amount of people.

Civvy airlines will do their utmost to keep planes in the air, time on ground is money, The RAF don't have this ethos and quite happily scrimp a couple of hundred quid by not keeping spares available, meaning we end up robbing (sorry, cannibalising) meaning that twice the work is generated from one snag, and it is not unknown for the robbed bit to be U/S on refit meaning 3 times the work. It really is amazing how much 'teccie' time is wasted chasing spares, if the RAF were to do a study on that, I am sure they would suddenly find some money for a few more stackers and a few more spares.

Also, Civvy airlines tend to have schedules, you know when it is going up (roughly) when it is coming down and when it is going for a service. We tend to find out the flying program, including roles required less than 24 hours before, and that is always subject to amendment, we also do a lot more flying about in circles than your average civvy airline. None that i know of go up and down 3 times a day with a rerole in between as a matter of course? We do.

The fact is, the first line environment is simply not suitable for these management inspired 'magic fixes' that work in general industry. We don't work to a routine and we need to be too flexible to keep up with varying demand. It's all well and good trimming the fat to fit some idealistic 'perfect' days work, but all it takes is a break from the norm (and the norm is rare) and you are struggling from then on, even if you do have a slacker flying day, you are still trying to catch up from the day before, or the day before that.

All this can be condensed really, LEAN sucks, it sucks the big fat one in the first line environment.

 

[Rigga]

Maybe I have lost the scale of your problem nowadays?

It's not unheard of for some airlines/aircraft to work two schedules and re-role for night time freighting after a last flight at 22:00 (e.g. Post Office - Mail Contracts) and back again before 06:00 ready for the next Pax Sectors.
Seventy seats out, Ball-Floor in. and back again every night/morning.
A-checks also have to be completed before morning flights - and "paddys mob" could be pretty early requirements at times.

 

[Almost_done]

New ENGO in from a Wiltshire base to a South Oxfordshire base

New ENGO in from a Wiltshire base to a South Oxfordshire base

I am scared, he was saying that LEAN is working, LEAN change is adaptable for the RAF and will be embraced.......OMG!!

I hate to see it/say it but the EngO's are truely behind the change culture, it's as if they no longer have a personal thought outside of the box.

Is it so bad for the 'O'Class that they must follow the party doctorine without challenging it?

So the way I see it is the SNCO/NCO are being the one saying 'no this is bad' then the 'O's are seeing us as the problem and being intractable about a new system, even when we adopt the practises and embrace them when they do work but highlight the problem issues.

The best bit about it all for me is the way we have used Civvy Firms to drive or change culture and they come out with statements such as 'you are finding too many faults with the A/C you must change how you examine the A/C'. Humm no thoughts on flight safety there. I don't know about you guys but I joined up to fix A/C not see them through a Minor 2**, put a sticking plaster on them and send them out with more Reds and Greens than they came in with.

The LEAN process has proved just how underfunded we are, not only the Techies but the Logs trades too.

We need the IPTs to get their collective heads out of the sand and start to stand up to the Civil Servants (HMT) and get us the spares ordered to allow us to do the damn work.


/rant off

 

[Rigga]

THAT is the main reason I refused to apply for a comishun when asked.

You have to understand that; To be an 'o'; it is possible to own an opinion, and it is sometimes allowable to give that opinion to someone (junior to yourself). But you are not allowed to follow your own thoughts!

"They" may agree with all your sentiments but are not to be seen rowing against the Stream.

- My lack of belief that the 'biggies' Diktats were good for the Service, and the need to enforce it! saw that one off.

I would have made a good shop steward though!

 

[Sgt Frank]

I'm struggling to get to grips with the idea that in a situation where jobs are set aside due to a genuine lack of manpower, there can be a voluntary redundancy scheme that culls 40 experieinced technicians from the pool. Or that flight operations and engineering operations seem to be divorced from each other. Is the flying programme in fact being met? If it is, then complaints will fall on deaf ears. If it isn't, although officers may not be able or willing to discuss matters with subordinates, they DO have a duty to report their problems back up the chain. Are they actually accountable for meeting the flying programme or not?

I used to be a SNCO Techie and these days I'm a 'Project Manager' in a civvy MRO, responsible amongst other things for implementing part of a LEAN programme. I don't know what is really going on at Lyneham but there's no doubt whatever that this is not an implementation of "LEAN" as I understand it.

 

[Almost_done]

Clears space on the floor, places soapbox, steps onto soapbox;


The RAF is looking at putting all 2nd line operations to Civilian contract in the near future therefore the LEAN change is progress work to make it easy for personnel not used to the military ethos to come on board (so to speak) over the weekend and pick up the tools that we have stopped using last Friday.

All servicemen (and women hate to be unPC) will then be posted onto a 1st line Squadron, hey presto, no under manning problem.

All the 2nd Line servicing will be met by the contracted workers, their employers will then face financial penalties if the A/C is late out, therefore even more Reds and Greens in the F700 after the servicing as they won't be able to fix it in time.

Yes that may be a pessimistic view of the future, but if you look at the present trend *Its cheaper to get a civvy to do it and use civvy A/C (look at 84 Sqn)* then the Blue Suited individuals will be at the front.

The experience gained on the 2nd line shop floor will no longer be gained and the overall experience of the RAF will just be as LMU replacement specialists, it will be no more fault diagnosis, rather more like, take this out and if that didn't fix it change the next thing, keep the Aircrew happy keep the jets flying.

All i can say is god help us if we ever have to face a large scale problem in the future. the personnel will not have the skill base to cope let alone the manpower.

Some may call me pessimistic but with all the changes I have witnessed over the long years this one is aimed directly at the core of the RAF and is destined to reduce us to the minimal size humanly possible but showing the public there is no change as all the blue suits (or maybe CS95 as we all now must wear that on deployments, blending into the army) are on frontline squadrons where we are visible, they will not miss us at our 2nd line establishments.


Gets off soapbox; picks it up and places it into the waste wood skip, switches off the light and shuts the hangar doors

 

[Plumber]

I was in a good mood this morning, til now.

 

[fatbaldchief]

Well said that man

Well said that man

Very well written Almost Done. As I see it, all the RAF system experience and expertise that has been gained at 2nd and 3rd line over the years and then transferred to the 1st line environment has been priceless.
I personally found my Tornado 2nd line experience a massive help when posted onto an F3 Sqn and was pleased to pass on deeper system knowledge.
In the future all the Airforce will be is a pit stop crew using a hole in the company wall that black boxes go in and out of.
The brains will go and monkey's will rule.
Progress? Lean? Efficient? Cheaper? Better?

 

[goatblower]

just a quick one to add.... with no second line manpower to fall back on all the manpower for dets/ deployments and recoverys HAS to come from the line (or whatever it will be called) As Rigga rightly says, 'a lack of manpower increases downtime'. Also, those left will still have to cover the increased guard commitments that the 2nd line lads and lasses used to do....has anyone thought of the consequences?????

As AD has said, the force will in the next 4-5 years become a very poor sight indeed, with very little morale, no strength in its trade depth and A/C leaving civillian contractors in a worse state than they arrive in.

Someone ought to tell his tonyness that he only has a very basic beginners lego set, not a top of the range technics set with all the bells and whistles!!!


Rigga, will my HNC in aerospace (from Witney college) be any good on the greener side of the fence????

 

[Bum Custard]

Lean = 6 weeks Pakistan, 6 weeks off, 6 weeks Basrah, 6 weeks off 1 month guard. God save the Queen.

 

[wobbly]

Update: Manpower levels on prop desk reach all time low.

Nights - 1 SNCO and 1 SAC
Days - 2 SACS

awesome!!!!!!!!!!