Kinloss MRT to move to Lossie...

[Teh Wal]

Even if we could pursuade the (unpaid volunteer) civilian MRTs to do the land-based SAR for military aircrew (or indeed the requirement for military personnel worldwide) there would still be a requirement for the RAF to provide a crash guard to secure a crash scene for both evidence and for the safety of the public.

At the moment the MRTs cover that task (for crashes further than 5 miles from an airfield) for the first 24-48 hours following a crash. This enables the station responsible for the Post Crash Management of the area to generate it's crash gaurd. Take away the MRTs and each station would need to have a crash guard on a shorter notice to move (1 hour). As aircraft have an annoying tendency to crash in inhospitable places (remember the F15s that crashed in the Cairngorms) these individuals would need to be equiped and trained to operate in these environments. So rather than 4 MRTs at current - each station with a post crash management responsibility would need to have a dedicated team of crash guards trained and equiped on 1 hour's notice to move.

And that MRT commitment extends not just to crashes but also to cover military helicopters that have had to land in inhospitable/inaccessable places through technical difficulties too, as displayed in early may when one of the Sea Kings from ISL suffered a bladestrike down at Ben Nevis and was subsequently stuck on the mountainside for a few days til a Wokka could lift it off. Even then the MRT cotinued to provide a security presence til it was fetched back to Lossie. I would suggest, thinking back in particular to 2006 and this incident --> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/6332159.stm, that your average station crash guard wont have the necessary equipment and experience to survive in certain conditions hence the MRTs are essential for this purpose.

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

And that MRT commitment extends not just to crashes but also to cover military helicopters that have had to land in inhospitable/inaccessable places through technical difficulties too, as displayed in early may when one of the Sea Kings from ISL suffered a bladestrike down at Ben Nevis and was subsequently stuck on the mountainside for a few days til a Wokka could lift it off. Even then the MRT cotinued to provide a security presence til it was fetched back to Lossie. I would suggest, thinking back in particular to 2006 and this incident --> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/6332159.stm, that your average station crash guard wont have the necessary equipment and experience to survive in certain conditions hence the MRTs are essential for this purpose.

Sorry I don't know what they do the rest of the time?

How about helicopters in Op Herrick?

 

[Climebear]

Sorry I don't know what they do the rest of the time?

How about helicopters in Op Herrick?

Fortunately there are lots of heavily armed soldier-type people that are hanging around in Helmandshire on fairly short notice to move. If that gets difficult we'll bomb the thing - that would be a bit drastic in the Highlands.

As for the rest of the time - isn't that a bit of a bone question - much like asking what Tornado pilots or Gunners do when they are not on HERRICK, or what do firefighters do when they are not bravely rescuing people from burning aircraft? [irony mode on] Or even why we have RAF engineers and technicians on XV(R) Sqn when the sqn doesn't deploy on operations anywhere - surely that's a role that can be privatised [irony mode off].

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

Fortunately there are lots of heavily armed soldier-type people that are hanging around in Helmandshire on fairly short notice to move. If that gets difficult we'll bomb the thing - that would be a bit drastic in the Highlands.

As for the rest of the time - isn't that a bit of a bone question - much like asking what Tornado pilots or Gunners do when they are not on HERRICK, or what do firefighters do when they are not bravely rescuing people from burning aircraft? [irony mode on] Or even why we have RAF engineers and technicians on XV(R) Sqn when the sqn doesn't deploy on operations anywhere - surely that's a role that can be privatised [irony mode off].

People on 15 are still in the DWR pot and still deploy with other sqn's. In fact, guys are volunteering for any OOA. 15 is a pool of experienced, Q'd and auth'd manpower that bolsters other sqn's (I.E, 70+ guys from 15 sqn sent on OP Ellamy to supplement 2 and 9 sqn. And guys from 15 going to Herrick with 12 and 617 sqn. Our armourers are OOA a lot doing their thing).

Also don't forget that 15 is one of the biggest and busiest fast jet sqns and we really graft. We don't do half days during the week or early finishes on a friday. Night shifts are often 16:30 to past 03: 00. If you think 15 is easy and you want to swap let me know.

 

[Teh Wal]

...
Also don't forget that 15 is one of the biggest and busiest fast jet sqns and we really graft. We don't do half days during the week or early finishes on a friday. Night shifts are often 16:30 to past 03: 00. If you think 15 is easy and you want to swap let me know.

No change there, XV has been that way for many a year, certainly the past 17 years that I've been staring across the runway at it - I've spent time late, late into the night in support of them, back in the 'Dark Days' when the guys & gals worked all night and still only had 1 'S' out of 17!
He didn't say that life on XV was easy, he queried whether the groundcrew manpower could be civilianised in-toto, which is something I've heard bandied around the bazarres quite a few times. Take a look around at what has been civvied in recent years and there might be your yardstick, who'd have thought that SAR would ever have gone that way, however...

 

[snowball1]

Sorry I don't know what they do the rest of the time?

How about helicopters in Op Herrick?

It's a secondary duty to most of the team, so they carry on with the primary job.

 

[Shiney Scot]

It's a secondary duty to most of the team, so they carry on with the primary job.

And when they are called out who carries on with their primary task? It is obviously their colleagues within their workplace.

 

[Stevienics]

And when they are called out who carries on with their primary task? It is obviously their colleagues within their workplace.

The same ones who always cover for those ones with other committments, sporting interests or secondary service duties I should imagine. The burden is shared with a happy smile and a jolly spring to the step by the remainder who remain ever conscious of the efforts the MRT put in, in their own time, and if it isn't - well unlucky. Them's the apples.

 

[snowball1]

And when they are called out who carries on with their primary task? It is obviously their colleagues within their workplace.

Great attitude, the type of person who is in the RAF who objects to someone working in the worst weather possible to save someone's life has no place in the military!

 

[enginesuck]

Hats off to the MRT my neighbour is on the Team and he is at work a lot more than I am ! If i was stuck halfway up a mountain - id be very glad to use their services

 

[FatDrunkAndStupid]

And when they are called out who carries on with their primary task? It is obviously their colleagues within their workplace.

Nice jack attitude, mate. Have you thought of a career in Civvy Street?

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

working in the worst weather possible to save someone's life

How often do they do this?

 

[Climebear]

How often do they do this?

59 times during the period 1 Jun 11 - 31 May 12.

Source DASA Military Search and Rescue Monthly Reports; Edition - 01 May 2012; Released on - 28 Jun 2012 (no indication of weather conditions): http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications...date=2012-06-28&type=pdf&PublishTime=09:30:00

 

[metimmee]

Nice jack attitude, mate. Have you thought of a career in Civvy Street?

I agree with the sentiments of your reply, however, the RAF has been configured to replicate civvy street and its practices. Sections have been lea**d (edited as it's a dirty word) and do not factor in such extras like MRT volunteers, inevitably others have to pick up the extra work.

That said, unless folks are routinely working beyond their normal working days / extra weekends etc. they can hardly complain..after all, we are all supposed to work hard.

 

[FatDrunkAndStupid]

I agree with the sentiments of your reply, however, the RAF has been configured to replicate civvy street and its practices. Sections have been lea**d (edited as it's a dirty word) and do not factor in such extras like MRT volunteers, inevitably others have to pick up the extra work.

That said, unless folks are routinely working beyond their normal working days / extra weekends etc. they can hardly complain..after all, we are all supposed to work hard.

I am beginning to understand that (I have been out a while!). My ire was raised as a result of an airman complaining that he would have to shuffle more paper in the warmth of his SHQ (or whatever his job entails) whilst another airman was risking his life to rescue yet another airman. And as you rightly pointed out: servicemen work hard.

 

[Teh Wal]

And when they are called out who carries on with their primary task? It is obviously their colleagues within their workplace.

Are we to assume that you object to people taking leave too as it means that you have to pick up the extra load that the leave taker has left behind?

 

[Climebear]

Are we to assume that you object to people taking leave too as it means that you have to pick up the extra load that the leave taker has left behind?

Not to mention those that selfishly get themselves deployed on other military tasks such as Stn Guard Force, Op OLYMPIC, Op ELLAMY, Falkland Islands or (heaven forbid) Ops KIPION and HERRICK.

 

[Downsizer]

(heaven forbid) Ops KIPION

You cannot seriously say that those on Kipion are busting a gut....

 

[Max]

As long as I can be off doing my AT and others playing football etc. then I don't have a problem it's certainly above other parts of the forces when it comes to my hit list, Surely the RAF band could be reservists? if not binned altogether,,,,,

Sorry back to MRT, it wasn't really all that long ago that I was told 202 were moving to Kinloss for definite and that never happened but it always seemed odd to have the MRT and SAR at different stations even so close. Surely it would make more sense to move stuff to Kinloss as there's plenty of room compared with Lossie. 202 and MRT could easily operate over on the North side of the airfield and it wouldn't be the first lodger Sqn on an army base.

 

[Climebear]

You cannot seriously say that those on Kipion are busting a gut....

Nope, just highlighting that when individuals are deployed on this (and many other) military tasks then their post's responsibilities have to be covered by their colleagues at theur parent unit as this seems to worry Shiney Scot

And when they are called out who carries on with their primary task? It is obviously their colleagues within their workplace.