Kinloss MRT to move to Lossie...

[firestorm]

I have to second that. Having spent the last year working in an office with someone whose "secondary duty" is MRT I can safely say it does in some cases increase the workload for others while they're out on the hills earning quals, saving lives and, lets face it, most likely enjoying it. I've no problem with MRT as a secondary duty, since they fulfill a requirement, but it should be just that, and not interfere with their primary tasking. Couldn't we chin off the civie rescue responsibility for the RAF MRT and increase the size of the civvie teams, then RAF secondary duty MRT could do their training in their spare time, not in work time!

You've highlighted a real problem. If some in the military have issues with people leaving work for MRT, how do you think civilian companies will feel when doing the same for MRT and, in the grander scheme, reserve service?
Civilian MRT are part time as well.
Its all in the ethos of Daves big society.

 

[firestorm]

Climebear,

Surely you can give me a figure of how many times you got called out this week and how many lives you saved this week?

How many times has your house burned down or been burgled? If it a really low number will you be cancelling your insurance policies?

Lots of emergency organisations rely on volunteers giving their time, that includes employers releasing people to do this work. As a nation, we're all better off for it, long may it continue.

 

[metimmee]

How many times has your house burned down or been burgled? If it a really low number will you be cancelling your insurance policies?

Lots of emergency organisations rely on volunteers giving their time, that includes employers releasing people to do this work. As a nation, we're all better off for it, long may it continue.

You're correct about giving their own time, I belive Kinloss MRT members had to commit to at least 2 weekends per month in order to remain on the team.

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

Oh yes, in the pub every Friday AND Saturday night. I think I deserved it after working Mon to Friday(normal duties), then loaded up kit Friday (after normal duties), drove convoy to base camp, set up base camp. Sorted plans for following day..that's if we were not due a night nav or a call out.
Play sport do you?

As you're driving away early on fri, the rest of the shift here is still in work.

 

[Stevienics]

You're correct about giving their own time, I belive Kinloss MRT members had to commit to at least 2 weekends per month in order to remain on the team.

Technically, they all do. That said, most do many more than that, even those with families.

No-one said it had to be tedious or unpleasant for it to be called a duty.

 

[FatDrunkAndStupid]

You're correct about giving their own time, I belive Kinloss MRT members had to commit to at least 2 weekends per month in order to remain on the team.

You are very close, mate. Singlies = 3 weekends out of four, scalies 2 out of four.

 

[FatDrunkAndStupid]

How about the full time staff?

It is people like you and Climebear who are harping on about saving people all the time in bad weather. Nobody else. I'm just asking in a nice way how many times this week have you been called out and what have you done? Maybe you have it easier than you make it out to be? I have experienced guys going on climbing holidays or get away early on a friday while the rest of us are still in work. And I'm sure the weather can be quite nice, sunny and enjoyable this time of the year for a weekend of climbing and hill walking.

Oh yes I have had many a sunny day sweating my nads off doing a stretcher carry over mountainous areas. Mostly I have been soaked to the skin or frozen to the bone.
Try and understand windchill: wind speed doubles at 3,000ft, so lets say a normal winters day, 20MPH winds at ground level, lets say a fresh 4 degrees C at fround level.

Now I gave you the details of a quite nice day....they are NOT always as nice as the one i described.

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

You've highlighted a real problem. If some in the military have issues with people leaving work for MRT, how do you think civilian companies will feel when doing the same for MRT and, in the grander scheme, reserve service?
Civilian MRT are part time as well.
Its all in the ethos of Daves big society.

Nobody on here has a problem with guys getting away to do a good thing and save a life. Its people getting away early on a fri afternoon to be in a pub in Aviemore a few hours later and a rock climbing holiday.

How many times has your house burned down or been burgled? If it a really low number will you be cancelling your insurance policies?

Lots of emergency organisations rely on volunteers giving their time, that includes employers releasing people to do this work. As a nation, we're all better off for it, long may it continue.

The Fire Service, just in Strathclyde alone, got called out 52,294 times in 2010 to 2011. http://www.strathclydefire.org/media/133035/sfr ppr 10_11_v7final.pdf

In comparison, the whole of RAF MRT only got called out 59? times in the whole of the UK. On occasion they were only called out twice in a whole month.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

They only need to save one life to justify their training and time off in my eyes

 

[FatDrunkAndStupid]

Nobody on here has a problem with guys getting away to do a good thing and save a life. Its people getting away early on a fri afternoon to be in a pub in Aviemore a few hours later and a rock climbing holiday.



The Fire Service, just in Strathclyde alone, got called out 52,294 times in 2010 to 2011. http://www.strathclydefire.org/media/133035/sfr ppr 10_11_v7final.pdf

In comparison, the whole of RAF MRT only got called out 59? times in the whole of the UK. On occasion they were only called out twice in a whole month.

Then thank those on the flight line for doing a good servicing job, the pilots for not flying like a loon and the MRT for the day when one or both happen on the day you are PAX on an RAF airframe.
Your argument does not hold water by the way about MRT. Why fit Ejection Seats? How many times are they used? Infact safety equipment is rarely used. But you feel safer for having them? How many time have you strapped a parachute on? Are you a member of the caterpiller club? no? nice to know it's there incase though, yes?

 

[Climebear]

Climebear,

Surely you can give me a figure of how many times you got called out this week and how many lives you saved this week?

15 Sqn flew over 5000 hours last year and every week has 2 shifts in work repairing and maintaing aircraft around the clock from midnight Sunday to frequently past 19: 00 on a friday night. We don't have days off mid week or early finishes on a friday.

Nope because if you could read you will note that I was only on the team 2007-2009.

I am currently on MST prior to heading back out to Afghanistan (so that will be a year deployed on HERRICK out of 3).

How many of XV(Reserve) Squadron's sorties were undertaking military operations - after all, that is what the RAF is for? Or was the Squadron primarily engaged in training to do Military Tasks rather than actually doing Military Tasks?

And I'm sure the weather can be quite nice, sunny and enjoyable this time of the year for a weekend of climbing and hill walking.

If I wanted to get some quality climbing in for a weekend I'd either just head off and do it or perhaps do it as AT - then I wouldn't have to do all the other training that goes with being on a team.

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

Anyway I'm getting bored of this.

To conclude, this was all over you bragging about MRT and this annoyed me, because you are pulling the wool over peoples eyes. Because in reality the RAF MRT doesn't actually do anything for weeks at a time. The full time staff must have it very easy compared to the real RAF, they can't have much to do 07: 30 to 16: 30 every day of the week, when its your teams turn to be stood down that weekend and there's hardly ever a callout.

That one occasion where you are called out, its always to supplement all the other civvy MRT teams who are already out there. Even then you might not do anything and get turned back after notching up another "called out" stat.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I've known a few people who have completed tours on MRTs over the years, both full and part-time and none of the ones I know volunteered just so they could get early finishes on a Friday or free rock climbing holidays. Frankly, I think the guys have earned a few bragging rights and if they take advantage of whatever benefits may come their way...well, who wouldn't?

 

[firestorm]

Nobody on here has a problem with guys getting away to do a good thing and save a life. Its people getting away early on a fri afternoon to be in a pub in Aviemore a few hours later and a rock climbing holiday.



The Fire Service, just in Strathclyde alone, got called out 52,294 times in 2010 to 2011. http://www.strathclydefire.org/media/133035/sfr ppr 10_11_v7final.pdf

In comparison, the whole of RAF MRT only got called out 59? times in the whole of the UK. On occasion they were only called out twice in a whole month.

Thats a dangerous road to go down. Some of the volunteer stations in Strathclyde will attend very few incidents, but they, like MRT, are a resource that, when gone, rarely return.

 

[Teh Wal]

Anyway I'm getting bored of this.....

Good, f*ck off away from a thread that is discussing things that you clearly dont understand and sadly demonstrate no desire in understanding. When you eventually realise that many emergency services out in the wide world don't actually attend that many actual emergencies but are there JUST IN CASE then your mind will have expanded and you may well have come out of the other side of pubescence. It's such a shame that some people may have to put in a little extra effort at the workface so that some unfortunate soul can be saved. Such a shame that the overworked begrudge the saving of that individual.
To the rest of the goaters I apologise for swearing but you can just konb off with your selfish "memememe" attitude that is so prevelent in much of todays society.

 

[Flybynight]

I am beginning to understand that (I have been out a while!). My ire was raised as a result of an airman complaining that he would have to shuffle more paper in the warmth of his SHQ (or whatever his job entails) whilst another airman was risking his life to rescue yet another airman. And as you rightly pointed out: servicemen work hard.

I entirely agree. During my time I cannot remember denizens of SHQ ever being willing to put themselves out for anybody. Surely it's long past Master Shiney's bed-time?

::

 

[snowball1]

Anyway I'm getting bored of this.

To conclude, this was all over you bragging about MRT and this annoyed me, because you are pulling the wool over peoples eyes. Because in reality the RAF MRT doesn't actually do anything for weeks at a time. The full time staff must have it very easy compared to the real RAF, they can't have much to do 07: 30 to 16: 30 every day of the week, when its your teams turn to be stood down that weekend and there's hardly ever a callout.

That one occasion where you are called out, its always to supplement all the other civvy MRT teams who are already out there. Even then you might not do anything and get turned back after notching up another "called out" stat.

You should go out for a weekend with a team, you will have a change of attitude. I can arrange it for you if you want.

 

[ace_rimmer]

I've known a few people who have completed tours on MRTs over the years, both full and part-time and none of the ones I know volunteered just so they could get early finishes on a Friday or free rock climbing holidays. Frankly, I think the guys have earned a few bragging rights and if they take advantage of whatever benefits may come their way...well, who wouldn't?

That’s a bit of a naïve view! I know plenty of the guys & gals on one of the MRT teams and they do it because it’s a duty which is great fun. I know that. I’ve been out with them. Its tough, and yes, on occasion I know they have to do unpleasant things, but its overall very rewarding - most of them do it because they like climbing hills, its good socially, gets you out of the office every so often and gets you some good quals. But if someone is leaving work early to go off on a weekend, or just has to take a week off to do their summer mountain training, then yes other people have to shuffle more paper/do more work/polish more planes. Which can have an impact on the output of that section, not to mention p*ssing everyone else off when the MRT bod comes in on Monday (or Tuesday because they needed Monday off to sleep off the weekend’s exertion) with tales of spending Friday night in Fort William getting ****ed, Saturday night in a bothy drinking whiskey, and then finding an old lady and her dog on Sunday evening. How do you think that looks to the rest of the section, or the other poor guy/gal who also wants to join MRT or wanted to get away early to spend a weekend doing their secondary duty but can’t because the section can’t afford to lose two people at the drop of a hat? My main grievance is that it is a secondary duty. As such it should not take precedence over a primary duty, yet in my experience it commonly does. Other than that I have no issue with MRT – I just think there is probably a better way to source the personnel than the current arrangement.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Obviously the guys on MRT enjoy what they do; it would take someone 'special' to volunteer for something they hate! But I stand by my comment that they don't volunteer just so they can get away early on Fridays.

Is there a better way to staff and manage MRTs in the current climate? Quite probably, yes. According to the oracle that is Wikipedia, the RAF Mountain Rescue Service was formed because somebody worked out that taking the first half a dozen guys they saw out onto mountains to try to recover downed aircrew without due regard for training, experience and equipment would likely result in disaster. If we accept that is still true and if we further accept that a mountain rescue service of some kind is still necessary then whoever forms those teams must be properly trained and equipped. Whether those teams come from the RAF or from another walk of life they need to be paid for and if the teams are not to be established full time positions (59 'real' callouts nationally in one year suggests it would not be economically sensible to do so) then they will be part-timers who will need the flexibility to leave their regular place of work for training and calllouts.

How do the RNLI do it? Or retained firefighters?

 

[Mr Grok]

All this talk of "getting away early on a Friday for the weekend...." for MRT volunteers, just how early do the people making these comments think this happens, or have observed it happening? Or is it just an urban myth and do they just leave at the end of a normal working day? And when do they get back at the end of a weekends training?

I've been on plenty of stations where there is always a long line of cars leaving the base at 4pm on a Friday afternoon....


Just asking a question, to try and establish some facts rather than rely on rumour. I should also say that I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of an RAF MRT.

By the way, to get back to the point of the thread, I've heard that Kinloss MRT aren't moving from their purpose built facility as such, rather they are simply being re-named the Lossiemouth MRT..... anyone else heard that?

I also assume with the planned closure of RAF Leuchars then the RAF MRT team there will disappear?



Vim - I don't know what your comment about Kinloss being at the end of a long supply chain was supposed to imply, but given that Lossiemouth, a major airfield with a new type coming in, is about 10 miles away, I would have thought that the minimal extra burden of suppling Kinloss was not a major issue.....