The RAF - No room for 'Guys'

[dctyke]

Same here. I have landed more contracts in the past 6 months that at any other time with this mob. MIght just be down to luck or it could be that I am more focused more quickly in the morning...that and working whilst wearing just a thong has been found to be quite inspirational...

Yeah, but your company does sell coffins

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

Who else sits in a big office and tweets a lot?

hmmmmmmm...

 

[Tin basher]

Looks like "Sara" is getting some more troops to help with her task

Army chiefs setting up a £500,000 'woke force'

Army top brass are setting up a full Diversity and Inclusion Directorate to develop politically-correct policies - and are hiring a 17-strong team of equality specialists to transform the culture of military units.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[StickyFingers]

Looks like "Sara" is getting some more troops to help with her task

Army chiefs setting up a £500,000 'woke force'

Army top brass are setting up a full Diversity and Inclusion Directorate to develop politically-correct policies - and are hiring a 17-strong team of equality specialists to transform the culture of military units.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I genuinely don't know what RAF/military these people are in. I've never seen it, in 20years, not once.

I've seen people who cannot do their jobs use it as a get out of jail free card but I have never seen any overt racism, sexism, homophobia, ever. Still, £110k sounds nice. Shame I'm not allowed to apply for the job.

 

[Oldstacker]

I genuinely don't know what RAF/military these people are in. I've never seen it, in 20years, not once.

I've seen people who cannot do their jobs use it as a get out of jail free card but I have never seen any overt racism, sexism, homophobia, ever. Still, £110k sounds nice. Shame I'm not allowed to apply for the job.

Sadly, I have come across it...

A very long time ago (1970's) there was a tea break discussion as to the likely next incumbent of our WO Flt Cdr post - one of the possibles was a mixed-heritage WO known to approaching the end of his overseas tour and with a reputation as a martinet. An SAC in our team (S African by birth and when apartheid was still in force in that country) clearly stated that he wouldn't work for a n****r. Even in those days, that individual was told clearly by the rest of the section that he would have to shut up and soldier. As it happened the post went to another returnee from overseas and we were denied the sight of some real fireworks!

Much more recently, i have a close colleague in the civil service who is very recently ex-army, served in Afghanistan and was seriously injured in the course of it. He is, however, African by birth and when he was promoted in the army there were colleagues who refused to congratulate him for racist reasons (they told him so....).

That said, all of the services as i deal with them are very diverse these days, much more so than when i was serving, and, like StickyFingers, I have not personally seen any overt racism, sexism, homophobia in the last 20 years, nor despite my own misgivings of 20 odd years ago (I am, after all, an old fart now) have I seen any direct adverse impacts to performance from the growth of diversity.

 

[busby1971]

The Author of the article may be a little right wing for some, but it looks like it’s not just the military that is going beyond to fix problems that don’t exist.

The Civil Service has been infiltrated by extreme, politicised ideas about race

Many in our bureaucratic elite are desperate to abase themselves before a creed that despises them

www.telegraph.co.uk

Also read an interesting article on Transracial rights, if you think JK Rowling is having a hard time that is just the tip of the iceberg, just in case you were wondering Transracial is identifying as a different race.

 

[StickyFingers]

Sadly, I have come across it...

A very long time ago (1970's) there was a tea break discussion as to the likely next incumbent of our WO Flt Cdr post - one of the possibles was a mixed-heritage WO known to approaching the end of his overseas tour and with a reputation as a martinet. An SAC in our team (S African by birth and when apartheid was still in force in that country) clearly stated that he wouldn't work for a n****r. Even in those days, that individual was told clearly by the rest of the section that he would have to shut up and soldier. As it happened the post went to another returnee from overseas and we were denied the sight of some real fireworks!

Much more recently, i have a close colleague in the civil service who is very recently ex-army, served in Afghanistan and was seriously injured in the course of it. He is, however, African by birth and when he was promoted in the army there were colleagues who refused to congratulate him for racist reasons (they told him so....).

That said, all of the services as i deal with them are very diverse these days, much more so than when i was serving, and, like StickyFingers, I have not personally seen any overt racism, sexism, homophobia in the last 20 years, nor despite my own misgivings of 20 odd years ago (I am, after all, an old fart now) have I seen any direct adverse impacts to performance from the growth of diversity.

So once in 1970 and second hand from another service?

Yep, we definitely need that E&D advisor.

 

[Rigga]

In my very personal opinion:

Most TV and artistic centres and reporters and journalists live and breath in London and the South East which is where the majority of high politics, high art, high fashion, "academia" and interracial co-habitation occurs. Almost all of our news and entertainment originates from these very same locations written, directed and delivered from within the very same bubble of influence...and it has been the same bubble for all fanciful thoughts, modes and fashions for a very, very long time. It is also a fact that possibly 90% of UK doesn't live in that same bubble, but we are fed the same opinions by regional broadcasting of the originator's stuff and nonsense.

 

[unruly1986]

Said WO also has a Sqn Ldr working in her location who is the RAF gender champion. Are these positions appointments or part of the ‘good ideas’ brigade?

 

[Downsizer]

They are secondary duties mainly....

 

[Oldstacker]

So once in 1970 and second hand from another service?

Yep, we definitely need that E&D advisor.

I did say 1970's rather than 1970 but otherwise my final paragraph does say i haven't personally seen any incidents in the last 20 years or so. I suspect that the need for E&D promotion is probably greater in some areas than others (much like society in general) but, as usual it is easier (and creates more of an industry and 'good' press) to 'broadcast' to everybody rather than dealing properly with what i suspect are relatively few real instances of 'ism's whilst at the same time telling the over-sensitive, easily offended to man up and learn the difference between, for example, crass insensitive humour and deliberate discriminatory behaviour.

 

[muttywhitedog]

The Author of the article may be a little right wing for some, but it looks like it’s not just the military that is going beyond to fix problems that don’t exist.

The Civil Service has been infiltrated by extreme, politicised ideas about race

Many in our bureaucratic elite are desperate to abase themselves before a creed that despises them

www.telegraph.co.uk

Also read an interesting article on Transracial rights, if you think JK Rowling is having a hard time that is just the tip of the iceberg, just in case you were wondering Transracial is identifying as a different race.

Cant read beyond the 2nd line as I'm not paying, but if it implies that there is a culture of white middle aged hetrosexual males not progressing at the expense of non-white, non-middle-aged, non-hetrosexual non-males, then i'd tend to agree.

Application forms ask you to state your gender, racial profile, sexual preference, and it is common knowledge that the option "prefer not disclose" means "white, middle-aged, hetrosexual". Oh, and if you are caught lying, you could get sacked, so there's no point putting yourself down as a black lesbian to get an interview.

 

[StickyFingers]

[

I did say 1970's rather than 1970 but otherwise my final paragraph does say i haven't personally seen any incidents in the last 20 years or so. I suspect that the need for E&D promotion is probably greater in some areas than others (much like society in general) but, as usual it is easier (and creates more of an industry and 'good' press) to 'broadcast' to everybody rather than dealing properly with what i suspect are relatively few real instances of 'ism's whilst at the same time telling the over-sensitive, easily offended to man up and learn the difference between, for example, crass insensitive humour and deliberate discriminatory behaviour.

Didn't mean to sound like a dick, sorry.

Think we're on the same page, as mentioned up the top of the thread this stuff is sorted at unit level. Don't need a WO on £50k telling us saying "Guys" is wrong, X, Y, Z.

As for what Mutty said. I think I'm gay on JPA.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

Cant read beyond the 2nd line as I'm not paying, but if it implies that there is a culture of white middle aged hetrosexual males not progressing at the expense of non-white, non-middle-aged, non-hetrosexual non-males, then i'd tend to agree.

Application forms ask you to state your gender, racial profile, sexual preference, and it is common knowledge that the option "prefer not disclose" means "white, middle-aged, hetrosexual". Oh, and if you are caught lying, you could get sacked, so there's no point putting yourself down as a black lesbian to get an interview.

1) I know you're not going to see this, you just wanting an echo chamber.
2) WTF does para1 mean ?
3) Para2. This is your ilks doing, you paperwork mongers who add nowt. Us that produce value don't discriminate. We don't allocate interviews.

 

[Spearmint]

Only one time in my 22yrs have I met someone in the Military who genuinely has hatred, genuinely evoked horrible vitrio towards black people. She was Royal Navy and a white South African. Approximately 2006-ish so recent enough but also not prevalent enough as I can't think of many another occurrences. I'm not surprised that she was though as I have two cousins from South Africa who were arguably worse especially when they would brag to me about why they called the black locals who thieved, 'Floppys'.

The odd angry skirmishes between Northern / Southern Irish maybe as Marham did have a flag burner the other week would be about as serious as I've seen of late.

Nobody is born racist they are taught it, indoctrinated into it or even a product of their environment. What about our Commonwealth troops? I've known one Fijian to murder another before over a trivial issue by throwing him down the stairs at Leconfield. Whether it was racially motivated or not I don't know but I would say you have a few occurences now and again depending on troops origins. So these people who sit in Ivory Towers chewing pencils are fulfilling a role which is pretty much required to intervene once in a blue moon being my guess.

 

[GD on Wheels]

My shift Corporal on Lyneham tanker pool was from the then Rodesia and made no secret he used to shoot at black people on his dad's farm when was a young lad. Plus a couple of Rock's at Uxbridge airman's mess . I otherwise did not see any racist incidents.

 

[4everAD]

If there's no room for guys, what happens if your name is guy?

 

[Rigga]

There is more racist vitriol between Celtic and Rangers than I have encountered anywhere else in UK. However, cross the Channel or move to any foreign country or Continent and you will find much more than you ever imagined...

For those that can't read the Telegraph article:

The Civil Service has been infiltrated by extreme, politicised ideas about race
Many in our bureaucratic elite are desperate to abase themselves before a creed that despises them
CHARLES MOORE4 September 2020 • 9:30pm

The Civil Service Code says the “core values” of the Civil Service are “integrity, honesty, objectivity and impartiality”. It explains the word “impartiality”: you must not “allow your personal political views to determine any advice you give or your actions”. You must not “act in a way that unjustifiably favours or discriminates against particular individuals or interests”.

The Code also justifies whistle-blowing: if you “believe that you are being required to act in a way that conflicts with this code, your department or agency must consider your concern, and make sure that you are not penalised for raising it”.

But what happens if your department’s leaders are themselves breaching the Code and actively encouraging their staff to do the same? Who will then be brave enough to trust the Code’s claim that you will not be penalised for blowing the whistle?

Last week in this space, I gave examples of how some permanent secretaries (the top post in each government department), in tweets and internal messages, approvingly used the hashtag Black Lives Matter (BLM) following the killing of George Floyd in early summer. Sir Stephen Lovegrove at the Ministry of Defence was one. Jonathan Slater at the Department for Education was another. Mr Slater advocated “tackling the whiteness of senior Whitehall”. These messages clearly expressed personal political views. They appeared to discriminate against white people. Imagine the justified outcry if Mr Slater had attacked “blackness” in Whitehall.

This week, the new Cabinet Secretary, the man in charge of all Whitehall departments, has been announced. He is Simon Case, aged only 41, and endowed with an enormous brain. He will need to apply it fast: his service’s impartiality is seriously in question. As with the BBC, this phenomenon is already well known in relation to Brexit, but today – also as with the BBC – it is even stronger in relation to race.
The mandarins’ endorsement of BLM was not an idiosyncratic “one-off”. It is – to use race-relations jargon – “systemic”. Behind it lie organisations and ideologies within the Civil Service which advance under friendly words like “inclusion” and “diversity”, but leave simple fairness far behind.

Take the Civil Service Race Forum (CSRF). Although 100 per cent of its members come under the Civil Service Code, it sees itself as a group within government entitled to lobby for particular policies and interests. Thus it tells the Department of Health to follow its recommendations in relation to Covid-19 disparities between white people and ethnic minorities.

On June 5, the CSRF declared: “We unequivocally support the global Black Lives Matter movement.” Unless civil servants “recognise their own biases” their conduct “risks complicity in upholding racial inequities”, it warned. A second Civil Service organisation, Project Race, born out of the CSRF, was instigated in 2015 by the permanent secretary at the Ministry of Justice, Richard Heaton, another senior praise-singer for BLM. It promotes “critical race theory”, based on five “tenets”. These include the idea that “colour-blindness” and “meritocracy” are tools of maintaining white power; opposition to the notion that it is a good thing when the interests of white people and non-white people converge; and the claim that “mainstream” school curriculums are white, middle-class conspiracies against ethnic minorities.

Out of Project Race come a stream of “race ambassadors” within the Civil Service – 50 in the Ministry of Justice alone – who commit to spending two days a month (at taxpayers’ expense) on their task. The ambassadors bustle round the Civil Service disseminating their woke tenets and collecting “intelligence on the ground” about departments and individuals who are not pulling their weight. Project Race makes sure that senior civil servants are taught about “unconscious bias”, “white supremacy” and “micro-aggressions”, etc.

When he was foreign secretary in 2018, Jeremy Hunt launched a “reverse mentoring” scheme to crown the glories of Black History Month. Senior British diplomats are taught by young ethnic-minority officials how to think properly (“help challenge ingrained views”). Reading lists circulate, recommending books like Why I Am No longer Talking to White People about Race, by Reni Eddo-Lodge. The temptation to take Ms Eddo-Lodge gratefully at her word and not read her book must be irresistible.

And so it goes on. Somewhere inside all this, the worthwhile idea that people from different backgrounds can enrich this country and give differing perspectives which will be useful to serving the public has vanished.

The test case is Black Lives Matter itself. What is it? (A question, by the way, that no official has ever sought to answer, even in favourable terms, in their streams of communicated support this summer.)

If you look at the UK Black Lives Matter fundraising website, you will see both its general aims and its specific policies. The former include the desire to “dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white supremacy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain”. In the eyes of BLM, that must include dismantling the Civil Service which pays the wages of all the people being incited by their bosses and race ambassadors to support it. After all, “the oppressive structures we live under” must go.

As for the specifics, these include “defunding” the police, an end to all border controls and the “decriminalisation of black students in the classroom” (without explaining how they are criminalised at present).

I expect all these policies are seen by the majority of the population as wrong and dangerous. More relevantly, from the point of view of Civil Service propriety and therefore of public trust, they are clearly personal political views rather than the policy of the Government which civil servants are duty-bound (as their name implies) to serve. So they blatantly fall foul of the Civil Service Code. Yet no one in the system dares object.

One unmistakable aspect of these doctrines is that they are explicitly anti-white. They identify all the problems of black people as deriving from white people, all the goodwill of white people as bogus or useless, and all the evils from which black people suffer as inherent in white people simply because they are white.

That sounds quite like racism to me; and not just to me, but probably to any white person – not to mention non-activist black people – in a work environment where these doctrines are preached. BLM followers complain of “micro-aggressions”. This talk is a macro-aggression.

There are times when the subject of race drives people mad. I fear we are living in one such. In apartheid South Africa, the desire to maintain white Afrikaner power drove the ruling party into a crazy quest to define everyone as white, black or “coloured” and settle their fates accordingly. Now it is a similar madness the other way round.

This week, Jessica Krug, a black professor of African-American history at George Washington University and an activist (nom de guerre, Jessica La Bombalera), admitted that her romantic tales of descent from Angola and Brazil were utter fiction. She is actually a white, bourgeois Jewish woman from the suburbs of Kansas City. “I have built my life on a violent anti-black lie,” she said. She added that she suffered from “unaddressed mental health demons”.

Perhaps Prof Krug has unique personal problems, but there are signs of collective madness in the desire of many in our bureaucratic elite to abase themselves before a creed which despises them. They should not be allowed to do so on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government.

 

[vim_fuego]

After 4-5 years of service I would go home on leave to the Lakes and be astounded by the amount of racist speech I would hear from builders and the like in the pub...It stood out because I was working in such an inclusive and level playing field in the RAF....So we can't have been doing that bad in the mob as this was late 80's. I despise racism in all forms but I equally hate it when some 'woke' cnut asks me to prove it somehow...

 

[Oldstacker]

After 4-5 years of service I would go home on leave to the Lakes and be astounded by the amount of racist speech I would hear from builders and the like in the pub...It stood out because I was working in such an inclusive and level playing field in the RAF....So we can't have been doing that bad in the mob as this was late 80's. I despise racism in all forms but I equally hate it when some 'woke' cnut asks me to prove it somehow...

My bold, I'm absolutely with you on that one. I'm in my 60's now and have (or have had) friends of all races, sexes, preferences and religions (even the odd ginger jock!) with never a problem. I don't need constantly telling to be inclusive & welcome diversity, i have been practicing it for years (although i do rip the P155 out of matelots and grunts..... because you just have to don't you.....). I find the constant preaching at me utterly counter productive but you have to be seen to be learning all the time instead of just living it.