The Nimrod rumours are spreading.

[muttywhitedog]

So what are all the breveted individuals going to be up to tomorrow when they dust off their blues and report for their non-flying duties?

 

[grumpyoldb]

So what are all the breveted individuals going to be up to tomorrow when they dust off their blues and report for their non-flying duties?

I bet they will still be wandering around in growbags............! DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[vim_fuego]

I've not been able to gather the hot poop on this as I 've not been around the right places but from what I gathered a while ago and if you believe the hype the first MR4 arrives in the summer......................OK....................So the MR4 OCU continues with some on it...The rest will be flying in the sim (MR2), getting loaned out to other flying units where possible, possibly some OOA slots (the AEOps where I work volunteer for them so they are available and it seems almost pre-requisite if you want to progress these days), AT should feature somewhere as during the busy op periods it was non-existant for most and if you know you have a gap coming up then why not, there are a sh1tload of ground based acoustic and EW courses to attend to up their game with and so on...

I guess most people would love to hear that they will essentially be on a few months of Texas scrambles with the monotony of that only broken by G&T's and watching Jezzy Kyle but heres the griff...One of the reasons I hated ISK with a passion (aside from where it is) and dug my tunnel out was the anality of having to be busy 24hrs a fecking day...real clipboard mentality...Now if it had been STM going through the same metamorphisis back in its hay-day people might have had more reason to be suspicious and definately alerting the fun police should have been their first task....However this won't be the case...I think they will be busier than when they had aircraft!

The FE's on the other hand will probably be sitting around looking a bit nervous as I've no idea whats going to happen to them....

 

[The Harpoon]

The aircrew will....believe it or not , be quite busy. Our lords and masters have a "grand plan" for us that involves a lot of simulator work, even utilising the MR2 sims for those waiting to start an MRA4 cse, to keep everybody up to speed- which will involve wearing a flying suit!

There are also going to be a lot of air power studies and presentations (weekly, to keep busy), visits, courses as well as leadership exercises (Can't get enough of that !)

All in all, not really that wonderful. Some people will be doing sims for the next 18 months, which sounds bl00dy awful to me!

As for the FE's well....they've all got jobs doing something or other, or are posted in the near future.

Vim, will be seeing you soon mate.

 

[BillyBunter]

The aircrew brethern have feathered there own nest , its only a matter of time before the public know what suipid positions they have , already there is a list of most ridiculous 35k a year jobs. Just so sad the groundcrew cannot fall into the station commanders love nest. They are the ones getting ther crap end of things yet who cares .... Kinloss is a reason to get rid of the dead wood

 

[vim_fuego]

The aircrew brethern have feathered there own nest , its only a matter of time before the public know what suipid positions they have , already there is a list of most ridiculous 35k a year jobs. Just so sad the groundcrew cannot fall into the station commanders love nest. They are the ones getting ther crap end of things yet who cares .... Kinloss is a reason to get rid of the dead wood

So what would you have seen happen with the aircrew then keeping in mind they have to plan on the news that MR4 arrives July time which is 3-4 months away? FE's aside and some of the older AEOp's who are probably calling it quits rather than convert to yet another type most will be needed up there for the new jet...If you were to post one to me on E3's for example if they were lucky enough to stumble onto an OCU starting the very same day you are still talking a minimum of 18-20 months to reach the basic level of combat ready and we have our own issues on this fleet for numbers of techies etc...so in this game there isn't really a quick fix to offset a seemingly unfair situation in your eyes...

I'm guessing you are one the the techies who has drawn a posting away? How long have you done at ISK?

 

[Shiney Scot]

So what would you have seen happen with the aircrew then keeping in mind they have to plan on the news that MR4 arrives July time which is 3-4 months away?

Vim - You are correct when you say that MRA4 arrives in July. However, the unit will not receive its full complement of aircraft for over 2 years (if at all following SDR). Why keep all of the crews now? Why is there not a structured training programme planned over the next couple of years that would allow the same aircrew to achieve the same result? Some of the crews cannot be scheduled to undergo the MRA4 OCU for many months. This would also allow them to be posted away from the unit, to return at a later date when their OCU course commences, to perform tasks on SH, AT etc or indeed why not post them to ground posts and release those SH, AT specialists from those posts to use their particular skill sets? Air power training and presentations are things that us mere mortals do in addition to our day-to-day role not just as a primary task.

The ground crew selection process has, from a distance, appeared to be a far more robust process than the aircrew one!

 

[vim_fuego]

Vim - You are correct when you say that MRA4 arrives in July. However, the unit will not receive its full complement of aircraft for over 2 years (if at all following SDR). Why keep all of the crews now? Why is there not a structured training programme planned over the next couple of years that would allow the same aircrew to achieve the same result? Some of the crews cannot be scheduled to undergo the MRA4 OCU for many months. This would also allow them to be posted away from the unit, to return at a later date when their OCU course commences, to perform tasks on SH, AT etc or indeed why not post them to ground posts and release those SH, AT specialists from those posts to use their particular skill sets? Air power training and presentations are things that us mere mortals do in addition to our day-to-day role not just as a primary task.

The ground crew selection process has, from a distance, appeared to be a far more robust process than the aircrew one!

I think I answered your question in the previous post by using the E3 route as an example...time....The route to flying SH is even longer due to the Shawbury bottleneck...We are talking months here and not years so the expense of posting away for up to a year with the requisite allowances to do so doesn't fit the present financial climate we are operating in...The aircraft arrives non operationally evaluated so the crews will be taking on an entirely new challenge of doing that...The info learned can be plumbed into the sim and other crews can practice and refine it...This, as mentioned in an earlier post, is an ideal chance to catch up on all the courses that the rest of the EW/ACO bods have been doing whilst Nimrod was busy on ops...

Of the groundcrew who are posted out how many are the powers that be planning to recall once the MR4 arrives?

 

[are u looking at me]

I'm guessing you are one the the techies who has drawn a posting away? How long have you done at ISK?[/

Just how important is this question, how long have many of the aircrew spent at Kinloss? You can't have it both ways suggesting that the aircrew are undergoing an intense period of training and the groundcrew chisselers are worried about heading of to deepest darkest basingstoke. Perhaps I'm being unfair to you, you may know far more about what is going on than the mere mortals.

Yes, it is impractical to post aircrew away particularly when you can invent new posts such as flight deck assistant/advisor for those breveted individuals who would explode at leaving RAF Moray. To suggest that nests haven't been feathered either betrays collosal naivete or the particular brand of WSOP spectacles that are so prevalent at Kinloss Primary at 0900!

There is a return of service for groundcrew too. Those posted away will not be returning at the drop of the proverbial MRA4 and there are few if any guys on NLS who have been at ISK for more than five years in any case. If an MRA4 arrives in July I'll be surprised as supposedly Kinloss has had one since February! or 2003 your guess is as good as mine and BAE Systems/PT.

Of course people are going to be bitter about perceived inequitable treatment. WSOP's have a highly developed sense of entitlement, you shouldn't be surprised when the 'little people' develop one as well.

Off to dig in and not check in!

 

[vim_fuego]

I'm guessing you are one the the techies who has drawn a posting away? How long have you done at ISK?[/

Just how important is this question, how long have many of the aircrew spent at Kinloss? You can't have it both ways suggesting that the aircrew are undergoing an intense period of training and the groundcrew chisselers are worried about heading of to deepest darkest basingstoke. Perhaps I'm being unfair to you, you may know far more about what is going on than the mere mortals.

Yes, it is impractical to post aircrew away particularly when you can invent new posts such as flight deck assistant/advisor for those breveted individuals who would explode at leaving RAF Moray. To suggest that nests haven't been feathered either betrays collosal naivete or the particular brand of WSOP spectacles that are so prevalent at Kinloss Primary at 0900!

There is a return of service for groundcrew too. Those posted away will not be returning at the drop of the proverbial MRA4 and there are few if any guys on NLS who have been at ISK for more than five years in any case. If an MRA4 arrives in July I'll be surprised as supposedly Kinloss has had one since February! or 2003 your guess is as good as mine and BAE Systems/PT.

Of course people are going to be bitter about perceived inequitable treatment. WSOP's have a highly developed sense of entitlement, you shouldn't be surprised when the 'little people' develop one as well.

Off to dig in and not check in!

It's quite an important question...Lets say its 5 years...Is that not a tour? From my point of view (and MR2's have been part of my life for 21 years until 2007) when you agree, or are selected as it is these days, to be an AEOp (I'm old money) you are pretty much sentencing yourself to a life at ISK...Yes there are other options but they are very few and far between for 1st time tourists...It took me many years to dig my tunnel and to achieve it I trashed my career (I was warned but put family before myself as it should be) as I always wanted to be somewhere else but essentially you will go to ISK and unless you make waves you are there for your natural...

When I was up there as a techie I always knew that as long as I persisted in my requests I would be out of there after some amortisation of traning costs and thats what happened...

One thing I do know about ISK in comparison to STM as a Nimrod base...the feelings betwixt ground and aircrews were 1000%(?) more hostile at ISK...This made ISK for me the worst tour of my time in the mob...and yet it was the same aircraft going to pretty much the same nice destinations whilst both bases were up and running...and here I am seeing it again!

Planes get scrapped, manpower gets moved, aircrew will always be left somewhere near the aircraft they are about to be trained on...If you want to stay up in the frozen North then change jobs.


Now all that aside when they lower the order or even cancel the MR4 post election then we'll see some interesting times....It'll be goodbye ISK forever...

I think your choice of word 'chisselling' was a little unfair to be associated with my post as thats something I've never insinuated or meant...

 

[MrMasher]

The aircrew brethern have feathered there own nest , its only a matter of time before the public know what suipid positions they have , already there is a list of most ridiculous 35k a year jobs.

I bet some of those qualify for the £100,000 retention bonus.

 

[vim_fuego]

I bet some of those qualify for the £100,000 retention bonus.

Certainly none of the NCA...I fecking wish.

 

[Stevienics]

I believe the point to be made here is this. if this was plan conceived to maintain aicrew continuity between the 2 Nimrod variants, then all well and good. Nothing to hide.

If however, it was thrown together at the last minute (i.e. this year) and faster than a Wimpey home in order to stop dilution of power base, and with more than a hint of nepotism in its veins, then it's a lie and will be seen by all as a lie.

 

[vim_fuego]

The way I see it is the decision to retire the Nimrod took most of us by surprise...As has been stated to retrain the aircrew for another type for a short time will achieve nothing but expenditure and no useful product before they are required back to [hopefully] be employed on the new frame...The chaps who plan the big stuff in or near London town have grasped the chance to transfer much needed TG1 types to the pinch points of AT and SH...The situation whereby we are short of said TG1 types is of their making and the ISK situation offers them a respite from constant criticism for their penny pinching and short-sightedness...

 

[rest have risen above me]

The way I see it is the decision to retire the Nimrod took most of us by surprise...As has been stated to retrain the aircrew for another type for a short time will achieve nothing but expenditure and no useful product before they are required back to [hopefully] be employed on the new frame...The chaps who plan the big stuff in or near London town have grasped the chance to transfer much needed TG1 types to the pinch points of AT and SH...The situation whereby we are short of said TG1 types is of their making and the ISK situation offers them a respite from constant criticism for their penny pinching and short-sightedness...

That's not quite what's happening.Those pinch points seem not to exist on paper, so posting people to them seems to be difficult. As for the retiring of the MR2 early that caused problems in what was already the most protracted and costly engineering transfer I've ever seen.

 

[BillyBunter]

I'm guessing you are one the the techies who has drawn a posting away? How long have you done at ISK?

10 years this tour around. 17 years if you want the full time spent on the MR2. Still on the list to be posted but hey ho thats military life. What I have seen at ISK lately has disgusted me with the attitude to one lot of people but disregard to others. Not going to moan about it , I should at least be gratefull the golf courses will do well for at least 2 years around the area. The good point is the RAF is going to get much needed experienced engineers who will im sure give a much needed boost to the squadrons out there.

 

[The Harpoon]

There are some aircrew who will be posted away for a short time, they will go and work down south temporarily at northwood/ high wycombe, these are the ones who have not been nominated an MRA4 course as yet. The reason that many are being kept at kinloss is to avoid skill fade, it would be too easy to just detach people away for up to 18 months, but it would seriously affect their operating abilities. Not only this, some would possibly have settled elsewhere and not want to come back! Better to keep them at kinloss operating the kit and honing their skills which they can still do, especially on the new equipment as it is so good. This will give them (and the new nimrod fleet) a running start when the new aircraft comes in, reducing the time it takes to make the fleet combat ready.

 

[Rigga]

mmm...I havent read all this thread so I dont know if this is any good but....

I read somewhere last week that some of the growgab variety are to be punished by touring with their US counterparts learning US equipment and techniques in prep for the rivetty things coming - a bit early in my opinion - but whats a few dozen hundred thou amongst aircrew?

 

[duffman]

There are some aircrew who will be posted away for a short time, they will go and work down south temporarily at northwood/ high wycombe, these are the ones who have not been nominated an MRA4 course as yet. The reason that many are being kept at kinloss is to avoid skill fade, it would be too easy to just detach people away for up to 18 months, but it would seriously affect their operating abilities. Not only this, some would possibly have settled elsewhere and not want to come back! Better to keep them at kinloss operating the kit and honing their skills which they can still do, especially on the new equipment as it is so good. This will give them (and the new nimrod fleet) a running start when the new aircraft comes in, reducing the time it takes to make the fleet combat ready.

A lot of those points are true for groundcrew as well.

 

[sumps]

mmm...I havent read all this thread so I dont know if this is any good but....

I read somewhere last week that some of the growgab variety are to be punished by touring with their US counterparts learning US equipment and techniques in prep for the rivetty things coming - a bit early in my opinion - but whats a few dozen hundred thou amongst aircrew?

They are already on them - and have been for sometime!