Reds "incident"...

[Blue72]

You are correct -it absolutely is a zero/zero seat and was operated in conditions which should have been survivable had it functioned correctly.

Thanks for confirmation (And OldStacker too) - I was sure that this was the case.

FootTapper - you question previously about how many other occasions that this same situation may have occurred but for there being sufficient speed to over-ride the jammed shackle - the incident in Crete in 2010 may possibly be one - as that also involved a RAFAT Hawk and indeed many of the same personnel.

 

[FootTapper]

Thanks for confirmation (And OldStacker too) - I was sure that this was the case.

FootTapper - you question previously about how many other occasions that this same situation may have occurred but for there being sufficient speed to over-ride the jammed shackle - the incident in Crete in 2010 may possibly be one - as that also involved a RAFAT Hawk and indeed many of the same personnel.

I suspect the issue is/was much wider than just RAFAT Hawks - the seat type is used on Tornado and the 9B2 used on the Jaguar had very similar/identical scissor shackle arrangement.

It's quite possible there has been many ejections at speed from RAF aircraft which would not have been successful as a zero/zero.



My memory is hazy - but I have a vague recollection of fitting Jag seats and fastening the drogue shackle until either the thread bottomed, or there was 1.5 threads showing, whichever happened first. (There is a chance my addled brain has just invented all that, but it rings a vague and distant bell)

 

[dctyke]

I suspect the issue is/was much wider than just RAFAT Hawks - the seat type is used on Tornado and the 9B2 used on the Jaguar had very similar/identical scissor shackle arrangement.

It's quite possible there has been many ejections at speed from RAF aircraft which would not have been successful as a zero/zero.



My memory is hazy - but I have a vague recollection of fitting Jag seats and fastening the drogue shackle until either the thread bottomed, or there was 1.5 threads showing, whichever happened first. (There is a chance my addled brain has just invented all that, but it rings a vague and distant bell)

Jag mk 9 seats had shouldered scissor shackle bolts that could not be over tightened. Alss jags were around in the days of seat bays so that bolt would never be touched at 1st line.

 

[FootTapper]

Jag mk 9 seats had shouldered scissor shackle bolts that could not be over tightened. Alss jags were around in the days of seat bays so that bolt would never be touched at 1st line.

I think it's unfair to say the shackle bolt on the RAFAT Hawk was "over tightened" - this may be a matter of semantics, but using the phrase "over tightened" suggests the tightening was carried out incorrectly, which implicates the tradesman, supervisor and independent checker as having some responsibility for the tragic loss of life.
The shackle bolt was correctly tightened in accordance with the Maintenance Procedure in use and the extant engineering best practice.

Without measuring all the drogue shackles and shackle bolts it's impossible to know whether the manufacturing tolerance allowed a bolt tightened to the shoulder to compress the shackle sufficiently to cause this issue. I do wonder if the previous design of shackle bolt was more resistant to this issue why it wasn't used on the later seat?


I'm trying to think back if I ever had to fit a drogue shackle on the line - possibly a head box change? (was that even a thing?) Like I say it's been a while - I could just be remembering doing the drogue shackle bolt at Cosford on the seats phase.

 

[Barch]

It has just been on my local BBC news that Martin Baker have pleaded guilty to charges relating to the incident, I missed the specifics but will try and find out more ..........

 

[Barch]

Now online ...

>> Red Arrows death firm admits failings <<

 

[Tin basher]

Martin Baker fine amount now released £1.1M

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-43171049

"An ejection seat manufacturer prosecuted over the death of a Red Arrows pilot thrown from his jet has been fined £1.1m.
Martin-Baker Aircraft Ltd previously admitted to breaching safety laws at Lincoln Crown Court. Sentencing the company, Mrs Justice Carr said it was "an entirely preventable tragedy".

 

[Rigga]

In my poor observations, this matter seems to have been cleared up rather too easily, quickly and far too tidily for my suspicious mind...I think a deal has been struck outside the courts. Time will tell, but I don't think the RAF can make an enemy of Martin Baker.

 

[Tin basher]

I don't think the RAF can make an enemy of Martin Baker.

What!! are you suggesting that an arm of government would be hand in glove with a private firm that has a virtual monopoly in its chosen market, surely not. DT_Xtremez_42: