Public Sector Pension Ruling and the Armed Forces

[Dan_Brown]

On 15 July the Government issued a statement in response to the Court of Appeal’s ruling against it in the McCloud case (the challenge by firefighters and judges to the transitional arrangements that accompanied their new 2015 pensions schemes) and the subsequent Supreme Court decision to refuse it leave to appeal against it. In the Court of Appeal ruling, the ‘transitional arrangements’ (ie who did and did not have to transfer to the new schemes) were ruled discriminatory and thus unlawful.

https://forcespensionsociety.org/news/public-sector-pension-ruling-and-the-armed-forces/

 

[Leroy Brown]

Yeah, I saw this... what does that mean for us guys who have 16 years on AFPS 75 and, after being forced across, 5 years on AFPS 15?

 

[Billy Whizz]

Yeah, I saw this... what does that mean for us guys who have 16 years on AFPS 75 and, after being forced across, 5 years on AFPS 15?

It should mean you revert back to 75 but still needs to be confirmed..............

 

[sulky]

As i have pvr'd and am pulling last day in uniform to the end of October, will they adjust this for all, even those that have left. Or put a caveat in it that it is for all of those still serving?

 

[Billy Whizz]

As i have pvr'd and am pulling last day in uniform to the end of October, will they adjust this for all, even those that have left. Or put a caveat in it that it is for all of those still serving?

It should be retrospective across the board - whether in or out!

 

[Downsizer]

It should mean you revert back to 75 but still needs to be confirmed..............

I'm not betting on that. And if it did happen, what will be cut? Or will they introduce a new sh1tter pension?

 

[busby1971]

Money put to one side for now, well money thats not there has been allocated on a sheet of paper.

Ministry of Defence earmarks whopping £1.9BN to pay for Government pensions blunder

THE Armed Forces will put aside almost £2billion to meet the costs of a Government pensions blunder. Ministry of Defence bosses have earmarked the cash to pay for the pension arrangements for some of Britain’s servicemen and women.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Captain Kirk]

It’s an interesting one. AFPS15 saved money, so the fact that this is going to cost money says that people are going to get back to 75/05 schemes.
The problem is ....... nobody has budgeted for this, so my guess is that every signing on, every acceptance of promotion and perhaps every posting will come with a signature to join a new pension. You want more pay....you sign.
I really hope I’m wrong as it’s deceitful and will force a couple of generations out the door.
Those who are decision makers for the rest are all in their final years, at whatever rank. It may cause a smell or ill-feeling, but they will be out before the real damage is understood.
Like I’ve said, in another post on this, even my Desky is looking at a double dip now, too big to ignore.

 

[Dan_Brown]

https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2019/12/02/judges-and-firefighters-to-get-pre-2015-pensions/

 

[Downsizer]

Interesting.....that is how I thought things may pan out. Move all pre-15 individuals to the old scheme and all post-15 joiners stay as is.

 

[Dan_Brown]

Interesting.....that is how I thought things may pan out. Move all pre-15 individuals to the old scheme and all post-15 joiners stay as is.

I sent the link to a colleague who replied that they want to remain on the 15 scheme (Sgt, 34yrs in)

"Not for spouses and not if you go past 37 years service as your pension is static on 75 but continues to increase with 15. 29 years on 75 and 4 years on 15 so should be good either way".

Hopefully there will an option to change or stay and not forced back, otherwise there will no doubt be further backlash.

I'm going to wait for a revised pension calc and also a forecast from the FPS - see what works out best.

Buuuuuut the fact that the Treasury has to find an additional £4bn seems to point that 75 was better financially.

 

[Downsizer]

£4Bn is across all the schemes affected, not just 75.

 

[Captain Kirk]

This is good news, and way quicker than we were thinking. This make double dip 05 members more likely to leave which frees up promotions slots.
I am hearing rumblings that the freedom may be short lived though.

 

[Billy Whizz]

Interesting news - I have 29 years on 75 and should leave at 37 years served (from aged 18). I thought 75 was far better than 15 and a no brainer to revert back so will be interesting to see the figures! Or just leave at 55

 

[Downsizer]

This make double dip 05 members more likely to leave which frees up promotions slots.
I am hearing rumblings that the freedom may be short lived though.

Can you elaborate on those two statements?

 

[Captain Kirk]

Ok, so the initial EDP for someone will increase now, I’m talking 05, not 75 which I know little about. Because the RAF is short of manpower more and more are being signed on past their 55, which then slows down promotion as effectively the posts are ‘bed blocked’.
Someone on 05 can leave a week early and receive a lump sum , and exactly the same sized lump sum at age 67. This is known as the double dip.
When people were on an 05/15 split, the second lump sum was significantly less, hence there was a potential draw to sign on beyond 55. Any 2nd lump sum on 05 is difficult to ignore, it’s a significant sum. More will leave to take advantage of that now and leave spaces to be filled at FS and WO level.
The muttering straight away are that if you accept and sign for promotion, re-engage or do an expensive course (?? ) you accept Pen 15.
I’m not legally minded and can see a solicitor entertaining a court room with it, so maybe it was just hot air blowing, but sadly some twxt will see promotion by chasing that rainbow.
I for one am leaving earlier now, I don’t know if I made a mistake by signing onto 05, but if I did I think I can see how to lesson the mistake.

 

[Captain Kirk]

There is a much wider thread on the prune site, which is warning of pitfalls and tax implications. I’m going to join FPS this week

 

[Downsizer]

Ok, I'm not of 05, so thats why it was a bit foreign to me....

WRT service beyond 55, I thought LOS 35 was the new limit. Ergo as I joined under 18, i time out at 53 regardless..???

 

[Captain Kirk]

It may be trade specific, but seeing as there are holes where certain timed out individuals, or certain age groups have hit a shit term/ condition they are signing on. I think for. FS , certainly going back 10 years, you got age 55?

 

[Downsizer]

You used to get age 55 on promotion to FS, but under NEM it is LOS 35. So in my instance I have lost 2 years potential service.