-
Welcome to the E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial RAF Rumour Network.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Penning up tool checks.....
- Thread starter Downsizer
- Start date
- 9,316
- 723
- 113
OOH hard to call. Contact counselling is out these days. What are the potential flight safety implications of the error? Is it a blunt end bay wallah or pointy end plumber doing weapon loads. Is it the section dickhead and persistent offender who still continues to f/up even after receiving guidance. Is it a genuine one off error from a good egg who shows contrition, so many variables. You could stick strictly to the party line and just apply cold hard justice doing exactly what the book says and nail him with the appropriate paperwork. But it's 2021 and the world becomes more woke very day so the person is probably entitled to time off for the emotional distress caused by their error. An extra week on tools may also work.
Last edited:
- 3,457
- 269
- 83
That's a sign of an unacceptable culture and your SNCO's along with your JNCO's need to grip it fast.
Would that be the only thing of note or does this particular area hide other shenanigans like folk stepping outside of their levels of Authority etc?
Also, how was this discovered? Was it on an Audit or due to someone actually coming along and doing their job properly, giving the opportunity to keep it in house and provide a proper LFE piece?
Dan_Brown
Sergeant
- 940
- 132
- 43
5 times?! Should have been gripped long before.
5 times has been documented? MAA time surely? But of course that sets a precedent for anyone else that does the same.
5 times has been documented? MAA time surely? But of course that sets a precedent for anyone else that does the same.
- 1,459
- 185
- 63
I thought standard practice now was to cold-shoulder and isolate the Whistle Blower?
- 9,316
- 723
- 113
Sharp pen action on so many consecutive days!! If your imagination is correct I'd suggest this is not the first time it's happened merely the missing tool has enabled this piece of sharp practice to be spotlighted for the first time. Either there's complacency in the workforce, a flaw in the system being used somewhere, or they are a bunch of bone idle gits who can't be @rsed to do the TC's properly. What springs to mind is oldies passing bad practice onto newbies in the guise of that's how we roll here regardless of what the book or our NCO's say.
- 6,803
- 436
- 82
We're the tool checks also subjected to a separate daily independent inspection by a delegated NCO?
- 6,803
- 436
- 82
I can't comment as towards how the service would deal with this using today's standards of disciplinary measures, but I can let you know how it's dealt with at my place at least.
Each mechanic or avionic type gets their own personal toolkits with an e-key which become their own responsibility. At the end of each shift, they are responsible for confirming using their electronic certifying stamp that the kit is complete. To back up the e-system, we brought in an integrity check by delegating an independent checker who would confirm to the tool kit owner that all tools are indeed there before the stamp is set.
Every day, the tool kit owner must authorise their e-key and if they hadn't stamped in the system the previous day, their tool kit remains locked. This is then flagged to their team leader who then commands a full tool kit check and reauthorises the e-key. Self discipline soon kicks in with the team leader normally only re-authing the e-key after periods of absence (leave etc).
For persistent offenders, monitoring is performed with a manager overseeing their daily tool checks for a prescribed time frame derived from the quality department of the company. Further transgressions lead to an informal warning, then to a formal warning and potential dismissal.
Lost tools are generally traced very quickly as we can cross refer the job cards allocated to a person with the aircraft and the area they were working in. So it's a system that promotes responsibility and redresses any failures quickly and with little fuss for minor transgressions while providing maximum traceability should a missing tool report occur.
Cornish_Pikey
Sergeant
- 616
- 153
- 43
The offender should be posted immediately to a docs cell, continuous improvement team, lean coordination team or similar non job where they are as far as possible from tools and aircraft.
That'll learn em.
That'll learn em.
- 2,219
- 432
- 83
And give them what is obviously a much needed career boost to the next rank up.......
Not a requirement of the MAMP.
- 6,803
- 436
- 82
I'm not familiar with MAMP but I have a suspicion that the problem is down to a less than watertight process within the present context. Any process needs to take into account the Human Factor and perhaps the MAMP you refer to fails in this regard?
- 6,803
- 436
- 82
Cheers. I'll search it out and have a read.
- 758
- 34
- 28
For both the military and civilian Approved Maintenance Organisations RA4808(1) is the regulation to adhere to extract below:
The organization should define and document a process that identifies the whereabouts of all equipment, tools and materials at the following points, as a minimum:
a. At the start and cease of the working day.
b. At any handover or takeover of a task or shift personnel.
c. When the loss of any equipment, tools or materials is suspected
Amended to add that the MAM-P also refers to the RA 4808.
The organization should define and document a process that identifies the whereabouts of all equipment, tools and materials at the following points, as a minimum:
a. At the start and cease of the working day.
b. At any handover or takeover of a task or shift personnel.
c. When the loss of any equipment, tools or materials is suspected
Amended to add that the MAM-P also refers to the RA 4808.
Last edited:
I think firstly, education (not punishment) is needed. The education on why we perform tools checks, and the need for it to be carried out.
What was the missing tool? Was it clearly missing? Do the individuals know what they were looking for? Is it missing from other tool kits, therefore assumed missing/on loan/unserviceable (like the other tool kits).
What was the missing tool? Was it clearly missing? Do the individuals know what they were looking for? Is it missing from other tool kits, therefore assumed missing/on loan/unserviceable (like the other tool kits).
- 3,457
- 269
- 83
Education on Tool Control (was at least in my day) carried out in Phase 2 Training and then as CPD such as Orders, Quality Briefs etc. If they aren't getting it by the time they are around operational aircraft then it's pure laziness in my eyes.
Procedures for missing tools etc again fleshed out by AESO / AERO's which all sign for as having read and understood.
Procedures for missing tools etc again fleshed out by AESO / AERO's which all sign for as having read and understood.
Education, every time. They could brief the whole section/shift on the need for Tool Control. Pass it around those who have been naughty (caught), one can start on the background, the RA, which AESO's, which forms are used, how to complete them etc.