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Lean, CIE, RIE, VSA

Tin basher

Knackered Old ****
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(Rant mode selected)
Okay we have had Lean, CIE Continuous improvement events, RIE Rapid improvement events and VSA Value stream analysis up the eyeballs. New kid on the block for me at any rate is "The 8 types of waste" poster comes with a nice picture of a waste bin in the middle surrounded by 8 discs each with a title.

1) Motion (WTF does this mean)
2) Peoples potential (been wasted for years)
3) Transportation (Huh???)
4) Over processing (What like JPA???)
5) Waiting (For spares ???)
6) Re-work (Doing it more than once see 4)
7) Over production (When do we do that then)
8) Excess inventories (WTF does this mean)

Some of it I understand some of it reads like a factory owners wish list. We are not a business FFS. Any goaters got a better list of 8 things you could describe as waste in the RAF.
Okay rant over still miffed though.
 

I Look Like Kevin Costner

Grand Prix fanatic..
3,847
44
48
(Rant mode selected)
Okay we have had Lean, CIE Continuous improvement events, RIE Rapid improvement events and VSA Value stream analysis up the eyeballs. New kid on the block for me at any rate is "The 8 types of waste" poster comes with a nice picture of a waste bin in the middle surrounded by 8 discs each with a title.

1) Motion (WTF does this mean)
2) Peoples potential (been wasted for years)
3) Transportation (Huh???)
4) Over processing (What like JPA???)
5) Waiting (For spares ???)
6) Re-work (Doing it more than once see 4)
7) Over production (When do we do that then)
8) Excess inventories (WTF does this mean)

Some of it I understand some of it reads like a factory owners wish list. We are not a business FFS. Any goaters got a better list of 8 things you could describe as waste in the RAF.
Okay rant over still miffed though.

LEAN team - waste of manpower costs and post it notes!
FSW and DSW - Eng and Supply had ONE OC, why have x two of everybody to do the work of one?
IPT's - Jobs for the boys. One guy I know on a IPT spends all his time sending jokes around the intranet, I kid you not!
DARA - the Airforce finally worked that one out!

Crack on!!:raf:
 
R

Rectifier

Guest
]

Any goaters got a better list of 8 things you could describe as waste in the RAF.


Not sure about 8 things that are a waste but I can certainly think of one

1. JEngO's

What are they all about and what can they actually do????
 

FOGHORN LEGHORN

Sergeant
905
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0
Here's my list,

LEAN wastes:
1 time
2 effort
3 manpower
4 resources
5 money
6 morale
7 skilled personnel who end up doing simplified, monotonous tasks with nil job satisfaction
8 paint (our place has been painted every which way over the last 18 months)
9 opportunity. If the RAF really wanted to sort itself out it should have implimented a technique that would have used common sense, not business sense thus alienating the lads. I know we're a business but I've never known of a company that so consistently shoots itself in the foot with a run before you can walk mentality that LEAN has brought.
10 US! My place of work is seeing lads PVR left, right and centre as they are dissillusioned with what is happening. These lads are missing out on careers whilst the RAF is missing out good lads who worked hard, played hard and enjoyed what they were doing before 3 building moves, undermanning (4 into 1 not redundancy), and BAe constantly pushing their agenda came along.
LEAN could've worked if some common sense was used, without it being rammed down our necks by certain people after nothing more than scaling that promotion ladder.::/:
 
Last edited:

MrMasher

Somewhere else now!
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LEAN team - waste of manpower costs and post it notes!
FSW and DSW - Eng and Supply had ONE OC, why have x two of everybody to do the work of one?
IPT's - Jobs for the boys. One guy I know on a IPT spends all his time sending jokes around the intranet, I kid you not!
DARA - the Airforce finally worked that one out!

Crack on!!:raf:

I thought that was obvious!
Whats the officer to airman ratio these days?
Now that I think about it, did the dedundancies cater for officers? I don't know of any that applied for it....................
 

Talk Wrench

E-Goat addict
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LEAN.


LEAN


LEAN



Haven't you worked it out yet?

AS LONG AS YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO WEAR BARCODES AS RANK SLIDES IN CHARGE OF ENGINEERING, YOU CAN ONLY LOOK FORWARD TO GOING TEN STEPS BACK.

HURRAH FOR THE UNIVERSITY GRAD/EX RANKERS WHO ARE FORCE FED BIG FAT CR@P TO MAKE SURE LEAN WORKS.
 

roverboy

Trekkie Nerd
2,204
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Not sure about 8 things that are a waste but I can certainly think of one

1. JEngO's

What are they all about and what can they actually do????

Exactly my sentiments, especially when you consider that the WO (a man immensely more experienced than your average graduate) and sometimes the FS can do the job of a JEngO
 
23
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1
Continuous Bull****

Continuous Bull****

The CI team at my unit are the biggest waste of taxpayers money I have seen in my entire career. These are dark times for the RAF.
 

Rigga

Licensed Aircraft Engineer
1000+ Posts
Licensed A/C Eng
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Speaking as an ex-Rigga, a Pt 145 Quality Manager and someone who is 'into' Continuous Improvement in the real world - what is the problem?

I don't know very much about 6-sigma RIE and VSA cos I havent seen them in action yet...and...

I think I understand why LEAN hasn't worked in your aircraft maintenance environments (due to an alledged misuse of LEAN systems) but Continuous Improvement is one of the drivers of aircraft engineering and maintenance!!!

Surely you all (Techies) see the need to improve on failures and learn from mistakes?

So what part of CI is the problem?



...and what is a necro post?
 

3wheeledtechie

Sergeant
703
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I'm sure you remember Rigga back in your time in the reputation of anyone connected with QA as a Quality Nazi. Fast forward to 3 tranches of redundancies and lean being introduced purely focused on cutting cost. Hey presto - lean is responsible for job cuts!!
Cut to a bay where Sgt Hairy-arsed Ol'fart has just got promoted to chief. Fortunately he knows exactly how this bay should run, he was in there as a Cpl. Hold on here comes some jumped up fecker from the Lean team (a stacker, no less) who proceeds to tell him how to run his bay the "lean" way. The cnut!!! CT Ol'fart's blood pressure boils over and he has four months off sick.
In the interim Fg Off Tristan Thruster has a jolly good idea how to improve his little empire (based on his 2.2 degree from Grimsby Poly, sorry University of the East Riding, and of course his RAF EngO course). Now of course seasoned NCOs have seen off more than one "good idea" from a baby officer, but he knows just how to get round this, (well it keeps being mentioned in the mess), he's gonna stick a flag of Lean on it and sail it under that. Its like buzzword bingo, but in Japanese at the 'event' outbrief. Several NCOs do something they swore they'd never do, and apply for instructor posts.
Meanwhile it is decided that in the interests of being 'lean' it is wasteful to have two groups of people on station who are universally despised, and hence QCIT emerges like a phoenix from the flames of cost cutting, to merge lean and quality teams, fooling absolutely no one. Only now the Quality Nazis are in tears, because just once, for a fleeting moment, they were not the stickiest dogsh!t on the shoe of engineers. Worse is to come as their workload is trebled as they seek new unpopularity in areas never before explored, such as PSF and the newly named Base Support Wing, and for some reason a JPA error causes a number of the team to receive SAC wages for several months.
Of course whilst this is causing much turmoil in RAF circles, the lean initiative is an overwhelming success in the new partnering arrangements with several defence firms whose stated aim is to make a profit out of the public purse. Many senior officers have to allocate valuable time to attending self-congratulatory photograph sessions with the management of these companies, before accompanying them to the mess to be dined in a fashion befitting such important profiteers. Unfortunately the photo and all afternoon drinking sessions dry up with the news that not a single aircraft will ever be delivered on time for its crucial deployment to the gulf, and the managers launch an all out strike to renegotiate the contracts as the lack of bonuses is the cause of concern in many a golf club. Meanwhile the lean team, or QCIT, suffer a change of fortune, and are now banned from all company premises that yesterday used to belong to the RAF, as it is quite clearly their fault.
Fortunately this debacle has been hushed up and a fresh squadron arrives in a foreign land, where their dashing leader sets about making new friends by issuing pieces of card (confusing also known as QCITS) to all other sections, by way of criticising their work, in an attempt to improve the shoddy service offered to the hard working engineers of this det, by the sun worshipping cling-ons in their scant working day. Said Sqn departs and all other Sqns are tarnished by association, even by cling ons who weren't even in theatre at the time.
In the meantime anyone who really knows anything about lean, is either posted after 2yrs if they are of the cravat wearing variety, or overlooked for promotion, and decide to either leave to seek fortune in civvy street, or swiftly ask for a posting back to trade, and never mention to anyone that they ever had anything to do with lean.

And that is the history of lean in the air force, or did I dream it all?
 
E

enginesuck

Guest
Necro posting maybe but I think TWT's post has hit the nail on the head really:pDT_Xtremez_31:
 
T

Trenchards Ghost

Guest
I quite like the QCIT, QA, LEAN and H+S guys.
It means that I can go in the Sgts mess and not be spat at when they're in there.
I work on the Red Arrows...lol
 

MontyPlumbs

Squadron Cock
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I'm sure you remember Rigga back in your time in the reputation of anyone connected with QA as a Quality Nazi. Fast forward to 3 tranches of redundancies and lean being introduced purely focused on cutting cost. Hey presto - lean is responsible for job cuts!!
Cut to a bay where Sgt Hairy-arsed Ol'fart has just got promoted to chief. Fortunately he knows exactly how this bay should run, he was in there as a Cpl. Hold on here comes some jumped up fecker from the Lean team (a stacker, no less) who proceeds to tell him how to run his bay the "lean" way. The cnut!!! CT Ol'fart's blood pressure boils over and he has four months off sick.
In the interim Fg Off Tristan Thruster has a jolly good idea how to improve his little empire (based on his 2.2 degree from Grimsby Poly, sorry University of the East Riding, and of course his RAF EngO course). Now of course seasoned NCOs have seen off more than one "good idea" from a baby officer, but he knows just how to get round this, (well it keeps being mentioned in the mess), he's gonna stick a flag of Lean on it and sail it under that. Its like buzzword bingo, but in Japanese at the 'event' outbrief. Several NCOs do something they swore they'd never do, and apply for instructor posts.
Meanwhile it is decided that in the interests of being 'lean' it is wasteful to have two groups of people on station who are universally despised, and hence QCIT emerges like a phoenix from the flames of cost cutting, to merge lean and quality teams, fooling absolutely no one. Only now the Quality Nazis are in tears, because just once, for a fleeting moment, they were not the stickiest dogsh!t on the shoe of engineers. Worse is to come as their workload is trebled as they seek new unpopularity in areas never before explored, such as PSF and the newly named Base Support Wing, and for some reason a JPA error causes a number of the team to receive SAC wages for several months.
Of course whilst this is causing much turmoil in RAF circles, the lean initiative is an overwhelming success in the new partnering arrangements with several defence firms whose stated aim is to make a profit out of the public purse. Many senior officers have to allocate valuable time to attending self-congratulatory photograph sessions with the management of these companies, before accompanying them to the mess to be dined in a fashion befitting such important profiteers. Unfortunately the photo and all afternoon drinking sessions dry up with the news that not a single aircraft will ever be delivered on time for its crucial deployment to the gulf, and the managers launch an all out strike to renegotiate the contracts as the lack of bonuses is the cause of concern in many a golf club. Meanwhile the lean team, or QCIT, suffer a change of fortune, and are now banned from all company premises that yesterday used to belong to the RAF, as it is quite clearly their fault.
Fortunately this debacle has been hushed up and a fresh squadron arrives in a foreign land, where their dashing leader sets about making new friends by issuing pieces of card (confusing also known as QCITS) to all other sections, by way of criticising their work, in an attempt to improve the shoddy service offered to the hard working engineers of this det, by the sun worshipping cling-ons in their scant working day. Said Sqn departs and all other Sqns are tarnished by association, even by cling ons who weren't even in theatre at the time.
In the meantime anyone who really knows anything about lean, is either posted after 2yrs if they are of the cravat wearing variety, or overlooked for promotion, and decide to either leave to seek fortune in civvy street, or swiftly ask for a posting back to trade, and never mention to anyone that they ever had anything to do with lean.

And that is the history of lean in the air force, or did I dream it all?

3WT, that is one of the funniest posts I've read on here in ages mate! Awesome! :pDT_Xtremez_14:

If only it weren't true! :pDT_Xtremez_09:
 

Rigga

Licensed Aircraft Engineer
1000+ Posts
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Well, I can't say I didn't ask what it was ...or that I didn't get a decent reply!!!

What a brilliant diatribe 3WT - even me, as a 'blind old git', can decode (through tears of laughter) that you're not best pleased with it and that you've seen some tough times through it - I assume it (LEAN and/or QCIT) hasn't finished yet then?

As I said - I thought I'd got the reasons for LEAN failures right - but not in such erudite terminology as yours.

What about CIE, RIE and all those other acronyms I haven't heard of (yet). More of the same cr@p? or is it more logical stuff?

In my present world I hope its looked upon as logical stuff by the shop floor. (and yes I'm still the QA Nazi! - even if slightly logical)


And thanks Hu for filling that gap!! - in my knowledge, of course.
 

I look like Bruce Willis

I Suck Like George Michael
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I'm sure you remember Rigga back in your time in the reputation of anyone connected with QA as a Quality Nazi. Fast forward to 3 tranches of redundancies and lean being introduced purely focused on cutting cost. Hey presto - lean is responsible for job cuts!!
Cut to a bay where Sgt Hairy-arsed Ol'fart has just got promoted to chief. Fortunately he knows exactly how this bay should run, he was in there as a Cpl. Hold on here comes some jumped up fecker from the Lean team (a stacker, no less) who proceeds to tell him how to run his bay the "lean" way. The cnut!!! CT Ol'fart's blood pressure boils over and he has four months off sick.
In the interim Fg Off Tristan Thruster has a jolly good idea how to improve his little empire (based on his 2.2 degree from Grimsby Poly, sorry University of the East Riding, and of course his RAF EngO course). Now of course seasoned NCOs have seen off more than one "good idea" from a baby officer, but he knows just how to get round this, (well it keeps being mentioned in the mess), he's gonna stick a flag of Lean on it and sail it under that. Its like buzzword bingo, but in Japanese at the 'event' outbrief. Several NCOs do something they swore they'd never do, and apply for instructor posts.
Meanwhile it is decided that in the interests of being 'lean' it is wasteful to have two groups of people on station who are universally despised, and hence QCIT emerges like a phoenix from the flames of cost cutting, to merge lean and quality teams, fooling absolutely no one. Only now the Quality Nazis are in tears, because just once, for a fleeting moment, they were not the stickiest dogsh!t on the shoe of engineers. Worse is to come as their workload is trebled as they seek new unpopularity in areas never before explored, such as PSF and the newly named Base Support Wing, and for some reason a JPA error causes a number of the team to receive SAC wages for several months.
Of course whilst this is causing much turmoil in RAF circles, the lean initiative is an overwhelming success in the new partnering arrangements with several defence firms whose stated aim is to make a profit out of the public purse. Many senior officers have to allocate valuable time to attending self-congratulatory photograph sessions with the management of these companies, before accompanying them to the mess to be dined in a fashion befitting such important profiteers. Unfortunately the photo and all afternoon drinking sessions dry up with the news that not a single aircraft will ever be delivered on time for its crucial deployment to the gulf, and the managers launch an all out strike to renegotiate the contracts as the lack of bonuses is the cause of concern in many a golf club. Meanwhile the lean team, or QCIT, suffer a change of fortune, and are now banned from all company premises that yesterday used to belong to the RAF, as it is quite clearly their fault.
Fortunately this debacle has been hushed up and a fresh squadron arrives in a foreign land, where their dashing leader sets about making new friends by issuing pieces of card (confusing also known as QCITS) to all other sections, by way of criticising their work, in an attempt to improve the shoddy service offered to the hard working engineers of this det, by the sun worshipping cling-ons in their scant working day. Said Sqn departs and all other Sqns are tarnished by association, even by cling ons who weren't even in theatre at the time.
In the meantime anyone who really knows anything about lean, is either posted after 2yrs if they are of the cravat wearing variety, or overlooked for promotion, and decide to either leave to seek fortune in civvy street, or swiftly ask for a posting back to trade, and never mention to anyone that they ever had anything to do with lean.

And that is the history of lean in the air force, or did I dream it all?

People like you have no concept of the gains that LEAN and CI have brought to the RAF. I was instrumental in bringing LEAN to the AT fleet and it was a roaring sucess.
 

8:15fromOdium

Sergeant
490
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0
I noticed this was a resurrected thread so I'll resurrect a Roman in my reply:

We trained hard . . . but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronius Arbiter, 210 B.C.

Admittedly the citation of this quote is disputed, but it is perfectly valid. I have great scepticism for any of these LEAN, Six Sigma, TQA merchants and especially anyone who tells me I must embrace Change, I always deploy the response 'Why?' to be met (usually) by a barrage of management mumbo-jumbo, to which my follow up question is 'Yes, but WHY?'.

My favourite line at the moment is 'Lean and Agile' FFS the two are mutually exclusive!
 

Tin basher

Knackered Old ****
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anyone who tells me I must embrace Change, I always deploy the response 'Why?' to be met (usually) by a barrage of management mumbo-jumbo!

My stance also. I abhor change it serves no purpose, improvement however is a step forward and can realistically be viewed as progress. Any fool , in the right position, can commence change, but improvement rarely occurs by chance.

Steps off soap box.
 
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