LEAN/CI is it any use?

[Fu Fu Valve]

Ok, i'm probably risking being stoned to death for this but here it goes....
Having left the UK for for a sunshine tour in the Med when all this started I can write what i know about Lean/CI on a match box....
Now i'm back in the UK I've been told I will be involved in it at some point.
So does anyone have anything good to say about it....
All I've heard about it so far is the usual, manpower cuts, move stuff around for no reason, it's all post' it's and brown paper, not for the Military...
So i throw it out there, is it any good?
Or should it be avoided?

DT_Xtremez_35:DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[it's-me-isn't-it]

Aviod it.
Did it in Colt engine bay, some civy got paid £48,000 to tell us to paint lines, clean the floor, etc. did it for 1 week, didn't work, produced no engines.
so reverted back to old ways, we were told not to tell anyone that we had reverted back and to only say good things about it as marham engine bay were about to go through the same. i beleive this was even more money and even worse results...

again an example of officers making sh1t descisions

 

[Skeedledee]

absoulte waste of time effort and money if you ask me

 

[BJW]

Complete and utter waste of effing time, have spent most of the last 3 years undoing bad decisions made on the hoof by people (SNCOs and Officers) whose primary focus is on getting themselves promoted. Analysis of processes, and everything that goes into and out of them, takes weeks and months (and years of experience). The LEAN process also takes the initiative away from line managers and just leaves them to pick up the sh1t afterwards.

I could rant about this for fukcing hours

 

[Tin basher]

Complete and utter waste of effing time.........I could rant about this for fukcing hours

I have ranted for hours maybe even days sadly all my words and those of others are all totally pointless as none of the people further up the food chain will ever listen.

LEAN, if it works at all, works best in a manufacturing situation with a minimal amount of variables and a known amount of stages in the process. Aircraft just won't play that game, to many variables, to many types of snag both in complexity and frequency of occurence. This "difficulty" in predicting what exactly will go wrong next with the 1000's of items that make up an aircraft make LEAN, in my view not the right vehicle for a military flying organisation. I have a far more inpolite version of the above which matches BJW's view quite closely.

 

[Skeedledee]

I reckon its where George Foreman got his idea for a grilling machine, or was it George Formby?

 

[muttywhitedog]

The original idea of LEAN, was to improve efficiency, not reduce manpower. I think the Japanese introduced it, and I'm pretty sure no manpower cuts were made at Nissan or Toyota because of it - they just churned out more cars.

Unfortunately, the military can never adopt the proper LEAN concept because of the constant "unknowns" that lurk around the corner, so they went for the Ba5tardised concept of "How can we do the same with less manpower", and called it LEAN. That doesnt improve efficiency, and never will.

I use LEAN pretty much every day. I am always trying to achieve the same output in a speedier and more efficient way, but would never use it to reduce my manpower.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

No real suprises then.......
All negative comments. I have heard some horror stories from guys who did it before getting to Aki and I don't think I've actually heard anyone say anything good about it.
Allegedly it's the way forward?

DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[propersplitbrainme]

I have heard isolated tales of good returns from LEAN/6S/CI events, such as component servicing bays where all of the tools (and only those tools) are held at individual workstations dedicated to servicing one particular item.
That said, the 6S/CI events held at our West Mids training establishemt have served only to generate resentment and annoyance from staff who, for example, suddenly find a piece of kit they used in some training exercise or show-and-tell demo has been banished to a mythical red tag area and if they want it back (usually only discovered at the point they want to use it, i.e. during a lesson) they have to personally go and recover it. It sucks the big sausage as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MadFad]

Try red tagging your boss, goes down very well??

Tried it on our GM years ago, what are you doing he says, well I says, anything surplus to requirement, hasn't been used for six months, don't know what it does, or is useless.

Absolutely no sense of humour these people??

 

[3wheeledtechie]

I suspect it won't survive in the air force because the proponents of it will: 1. at officer level move on every 18 months, 2. the facilitators will leave to earn their fortunes in civvy street, especially in the current climate.
And also because its being roundly abused, every officer that wants something knows the current best way to get it is to claim its a lean initiative; and without a structured programme, there's little to restrain those who shout loudest or who latch on the coat tails whilst its the flavour of the month.

 

[Webbo]

Ok, i'm probably risking being stoned to death for this but here it goes....
Having left the UK for for a sunshine tour in the Med when all this started I can write what i know about Lean/CI on a match box....
Now i'm back in the UK I've been told I will be involved in it at some point.
So does anyone have anything good to say about it....
All I've heard about it so far is the usual, manpower cuts, move stuff around for no reason, it's all post' it's and brown paper, not for the Military...
So i throw it out there, is it any good?
Or should it be avoided?

DT_Xtremez_35:DT_Xtremez_42:

If done correctly it's brilliant....................As the lead Sqn on lean it took us 2 years to get where we are now, and what a transformation, we are there to fix aircraft and that is it, not collect spares, not refuel vehicles, that is not our job, we are aircraft technicians and we fix aircraft. Since introduced and fully implemented we don't see past 11pm. No more green tile chasing and everyone is happier.

 

[Tashy_Man]

If done correctly it's brilliant....................As the lead Sqn on lean it took us 2 years to get where we are now, and what a transformation, we are there to fix aircraft and that is it, not collect spares, not refuel vehicles, that is not our job, we are aircraft technicians and we fix aircraft. Since introduced and fully implemented we don't see past 11pm. No more green tile chasing and everyone is happier.

So I have to ask why has it not happened accross the whole fleet within the RAF ?

You not told anyone yet ?

Crack on.....................DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Webbo]

So I have to ask why has it not happened accross the whole fleet within the RAF ?

You not told anyone yet ?

Crack on.....................DT_Xtremez_09:

We're trying very very hard. Grab on the coat tails and we'll all get there. Just listen, it's easy..............as the saying goes......you reap what you sow.

 

[Weebl]

So I have to ask why has it not happened accross the whole fleet within the RAF ?

Because generally it happens to the support before it happens for the Sqn's.

Example, lean go to MT and do their thang which results in them telling MT that when one of the Sqn's tractors go U/S they don't come out and look or come out and fix, Lean says the Sqn have to bring the tractor to MT. Add up a few more bits like that and that means MT get rid of 2 fitters.

Lean then comes to the Sqn and asks WTF we think we are doing delivering U/S tractors to MT, that is not our core business, MT should collect them or fix them on the spot, and we should not be changing tractor wheels, that is also an MT job (the same one the same people told MT only months before it was nothing to do with them)

End result, things go back to as they were only we, and everybody else are several blokes down and Simpler are several grand up.

Lean is a bag of ****e as applied by the RAF.

 

[8:15fromOdium]

Seemingly all is not well at the home of LEAN either...

BBC : 'Overwork' kills Toyota employee

Perhaps 'karoshi' will be the next great initiative.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

Example, lean go to MT and do their thang which results in them telling MT that when one of the Sqn's tractors go U/S they don't come out and look or come out and fix, Lean says the Sqn have to bring the tractor to MT. Add up a few more bits like that and that means MT get rid of 2 fitters.

Lean then comes to the Sqn and asks WTF we think we are doing delivering U/S tractors to MT, that is not our core business, MT should collect them or fix them on the spot, and we should not be changing tractor wheels, that is also an MT job (the same one the same people told MT only months before it was nothing to do with them)

If that happened, and I'm not saying it didn't, one of two things went wrong: there was no "voice of the customer" on the event (maybe the Sqn refused or couldn't release a man) and value was incorrectly specified.

 

[Bitburger]

If done correctly it's brilliant....................As the lead Sqn on lean it took us 2 years to get where we are now, and what a transformation, we are there to fix aircraft and that is it, not collect spares, not refuel vehicles, that is not our job, we are aircraft technicians and we fix aircraft. Since introduced and fully implemented we don't see past 11pm. No more green tile chasing and everyone is happier.

Can I ask what fleet? Because it fcuked the Herc Sqns up when they got Lean.

 

[muttywhitedog]

If done correctly it's brilliant....................As the lead Sqn on lean it took us 2 years to get where we are now, and what a transformation, we are there to fix aircraft and that is it, not collect spares, not refuel vehicles, that is not our job, we are aircraft technicians and we fix aircraft.

What - No SAC on "Tea Bar" over your place? Have you fitted a vending machine in the tea bar?

I thought it was set in stone that a TG1 or 2 SAC would spend a week selling crisps and snacks to his colleagues, then collecting cups from the "management" offices, regardless of how much work was on. DT_Xtremez_15:

 

[Webbo]

What - No SAC on "Tea Bar" over your place? Have you fitted a vending machine in the tea bar?

I thought it was set in stone that a TG1 or 2 SAC would spend a week selling crisps and snacks to his colleagues, then collecting cups from the "management" offices, regardless of how much work was on. DT_Xtremez_15:

Yes a vending machine and civvies on toolstores...............days and nights.