Human Factors Training

[SirSaltyHelmet]

As a facilitator and instructor, I am aware that people have different views on HF foundation training and the facilitated continuation sessions.

There is a poll up there, no matter how you vote then give me your view on it......

 

[Vee2]

You could probably do with an 'I have no idea what HF actually is' option.

 

[Harry B'Stard]

You could probably do with an 'I have no idea what HF actually is' option.

Or even... I've heard of HF, but not done any course in HF yet, so I can't tell you if I think it's worthwhile! DT_Xtremez_30:

HTB

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez....................

 

[gemarriott]

Or even... I've heard of HF, but not done any course in HF yet, so I can't tell you if I think it's worthwhile! DT_Xtremez_30:

HTB

perhaps the instructor/facilitator would care to enlighten us all?

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

What I would like is to see all this guff, and all the DII, MOSS, Information Management rubbish mopped up on a training day rather than me having to give up my own time (lunchtime is the current favourite) between actually doing my primary job! HF training does have a place, but there has to be common sense application.

A genuine question though, in these days of doing more with less and asking more and more from our people, is there an accident waiting to happen that will be attributed to HF?

 

[duffman]

Had to go with 'not done it yet', but like what vee2 said a 'no idea what it is' would be a good idea. I can vaguely remember the phrase but I don't ever remember doing a course on it.

 

[Downsizer]

Seems to me an expensive re-hash of various systems we've had in the past, sold to us at a probably extortionate rate....

I haven't as yet seen any advantage to this, but remain somewhat open minded....

 

[Rigga]

NotanIdoyet said:
"What I would like is to see all this guff, and all the DII, MOSS, Information Management rubbish mopped up on a training day rather than me having to give up my own time (lunchtime is the current favourite) between actually doing my primary job! HF training does have a place, but there has to be common sense application."

This is called Continuatiuon Training (CT) - but I don't know if the RAF (MOD) will start this off and match the HF trend its started - HF and CT work hand in hand in EASA and MAOS

A genuine question though, in these days of doing more with less and asking more and more from our people, is there an accident waiting to happen that will be attributed to HF?"

Yes!- the point of learning HF is to try and recognise it and/or avoid it

 

[metimmee]

I would also add that it is useful for those not directly involved in airworthiness on a daily basis to complete HF training. Our commercial, finance and loggies also attended HF training with us to understand where the engineers were coming from when we push back on certain emergent issues.

I attended a sales pitch recently where the EASA acceptable HF course was being delivered to other industries such as medical..same lessons, differnt context.

 

[Little Tronk]

Hf and following on from that, MEDA is only worthwhile if the whole organisation buys into it and abides by and conclusions and recommendations.

Unfortunately this does not always happen so...........

 

[MrMasher]

I find it interesting that HF is being rolled out to the rest of the RAF.
the flying and techie world have had it for a few years.

Are you facilitating/delivering to clingons SSH? If so I wouldn't mind knowing how you've pitched it as all the current presentations are aircrew and techie based!!

 

[Keyser Söze]

I do think that Human Factors (HF) training is worthwhile, although it can depend on the quality of those delivering the training. I have been both fortunate and unfortunate in that particular area, having been involved in some interesting debates and been involved with some that would send a glass eye to sleep.

As long as the whole system/management gets on-board then important lessons can be learnt and accidents avoided!!

Having left the mob and become a LAE, it is mandatory to have regular HF updates,,, the civil aviation sector, takes the matter very seriously, the RAF tends to pay lip-service to HF matters in my view, or at least it did when I was working in a mil145 environment.

 

[Talk Wrench]

I find it interesting that HF is being rolled out to the rest of the RAF.
the flying and techie world have had it for a few years.

In the civvy contracting world, it became mandatory seven or so years ago. to have HF under your belt as a pre requisite to contract employment, regardless of whether or not you had a license or passed module 9 (part 66 HF)

I did my first HF course at the end of 2005 and had to fork out for it myself. TBH, it was a good course. Two days of classroom lectures and discussion, interspersed with a couple of good nights out! I now I take the refresher every 12 months.


Does it have a place, I believe it does Does it have a place in RAF aviation circles as well as civvy aviation circles? Yes it does. Should other aviation trades be subject to it. Yes they should.

Years ago in the RAF it was called Flight Safety and EVERYONE was responsible for Flight Safety.

Now, there is some science, both factual and empirical to back up the Flight Safety philosophy of old. This should be extended to everyone involved directly or indirectly with aircraft operations in the form of HF training

TW

 

[riggrrrr]

I've had HF training for about 3 years running now, it's a 2 day course run by Serco down here and you even get a civvy recognised certificate at the end of it!

It's pretty good first time round, if only just to read a few AIB reports and unit inquiries. The guy that does ours makes it very interactive as well which takes away the boredom.

However, as it's a yearly thing like wiring husbandry etc, it gets very repetitive.........

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Are you facilitating/delivering to clingons SSH? If so I wouldn't mind knowing how you've pitched it as all the current presentations are aircrew and techie based!!

MM,

Its being delivered to everyone now and it is fairly easy to deliver it in a non aviation way. I have used Piper Alpha as a non aviation discusssion and it easily shows how humans can feck up with disastorus effects. I have used the Titanic as a case study, fairly easy to use as most people know the story. The unsinkable design sank, because of assumptions in the design phase. Get them split up in groups and get them to look it from different sides ie The ship designers, the crew and the passangers. It brings up some good discussion as they both try and aportion blame on each other.

You can demonstrate / discuss cause and effect with any trade or branch and it does lead people to understand where they sit and how they can effect the state of mind of someone in that chain of events.

People have to go in with an open mind, willing to particiapte and be prepared to try and learn/understand what its about.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Commsordeath, JTforever, MMJ, MWD and T55, you all said no - tell us why. I am interested.

 

[Talk Wrench]

SSH, Empty your PM box.

Message inbound!!

TW

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Emptied good sir

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

I did my inital HF training (in the RAF) under the MAOS 145 umbrella. It was designed from the CAA HF CAP 715 to 8 documents and was aimed at everybody working in BAE Swampsville. The course certificate was recognised by subsquent PART 145 companies I have worked for and I have had the refresher course twice at my previous company. It is of great relevence in all fields IMHO, because it illustrates to people that all human interactions can lead to a situation where something bad can happen due to a combination of factors lining up. Refresher training is used for unlicenced people in the civilian world to remind them of effects of factors and to update them on any concerns/incidents that effect their present enviroment of work (MEDAs for incidents in their company for example). Of course, Licenced engineers have more frequent training periods (Rigga's continuation training) and these go deeper. Its something the civvy world has been doing in this format for some time (as TW has mentioned) and has spread to Fuel Tank Safety and Electrical Wire Interconnection System training, that the latter is the civilian world catching up on the Wiring Husbandry courses the RAF has done for years!