FP in afghan

[Tashy_Man]

He probably would, thinking he could get a drink whenever he wanted one.........

Or a bit of "warmth" in bed when required !!

Crack on...and stay safe !!!............DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Mad Pierre]

Force Protection is (to my knowledge) is basically protecting by force
Its protecting RAF bases,personel,aircraft that sort of thing. I believe you go out on patrols around the area of the airfield/base you are on (like a couple of miles out), i think its like the RAF's 'Private army/security'

To be fair mate the guy is after information from serving personnel who have done FP and not the opinions of a 15 year old student who has yet to serve.
The RAF doesn't have a private army, it is a private army.

 

[Scottow Horseshoe]

From one Rigger to another....

From one Rigger to another....

You sound like you have the right attitude anyway JC, go out, do the job, but do us a favour mate, come back in one piece eh?

Oh, and no "Shaping your beret in a funny way" eh?DT_Xtremez_31:

If it were me in the same place i'd jump at the chance merely because I was a cabbage head and I like things that go BANG! (Maybe that's why I did time with the Royal Artillery too)....anyway, good luck and stay safe!

 

[Get Tae]

I wasn't aware that any slots were being gapped for techies OOA.

No they arent and I will tell you why.

The current manpower on a Tonka Sqn means that there physically aren't enough folk on a Sqn to fill all the posts required for an OOA det.

What is happening is people from 2nd line posts are being used to fill the gaps when a SQn goes out as well as people from the previous Sqn staying out and covering the gaps for 4 months but not getting R&R.

Now I know you all go on about, whoop de doo its only Al Udeid but they have thier own Sqn dets to cover as well, and those staying behind arent replaced when they get back to MOB to cover their empty slot.

Bottom line there arent enough bodies on front line Sqns as they have been cut too much and its now affecting operational dets.

 

[Ex-Bay]

Thanks, guys.
I just haven't kept up with the language.

DT_Xtremez_34:

 

[3wheeledtechie]

Bottom line there arent enough bodies on front line Sqns as they have been cut too much and its now affecting operational dets.

Another great decision from on high. Quite how they arrived at the figure for sqn manning is unclear, but it appears to be based on at best poor or flawed data and assumptions, or not to account for personnel occupying PIC nos. on the sqns that are on courses, in resettlement phase etc. Rumour has it that its based on everyone now being multiskilled, but as we all know there is a huge gulf between completing the course and being fully competent to carry out all tasks associated with the other trade, and many guys posted in from depth have no experience of the second trade or X500 annotation.

 

[Tubby]

I think 3wheeledtechie hit the nail on the head earlier on, not all aircraft land on runways. which is why people cant say to much, I completely disagree with this type of situation that your in regardless of actual task, a non combat trained person (10 days isn't trained) on FP ffs, whatever you do keep safe fella

 

[3wheeledtechie]

Yeah well they can spout whatever crap they like about warfighter first, but unless they actually commit to it, and I'd argue that getting people on a range that's longer than 25m and more often than once a year would need to be part of it, they are sending out people that are neglectfully under equipped in terms of training to do these types of tasks. Half the guys have to be shown how to fit a sling each year FFS!

I wouldn't be happy to go out in these FP type roles without adequate training and I'm an ex-infanteer and someone who can hit a target from a decent range with rifle or pistol. In fact the more you know about it might involve, the more scary the prospect of ill equipped personnel deploying is.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Yeah well they can spout whatever crap they like about warfighter first, but unless they actually commit to it, and I'd argue that getting people on a range that's longer than 25m and more often than once a year would need to be part of it, they are sending out people that are neglectfully under equipped in terms of training to do these types of tasks. Half the guys have to be shown how to fit a sling each year FFS!

I wouldn't be happy to go out in these FP type roles without adequate training and I'm an ex-infanteer and someone who can hit a target from a decent range with rifle or pistol. In fact the more you know about it might involve, the more scary the prospect of ill equipped personnel deploying is.

This is way many TA guys feel so neglected, Imagine going out and slotting into an Infantry unit with your 26 days of annual training?

Absolutely shocking.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

That's not the same point. 26 days is the minimum as I understand it, so if you thought you were deploying as a TA then maybe you should turn up more often and get more trg in, plus they get a proper pre-deployment package with the unit they're deploying with, plus if they joined up as a TA infanteer, then in theory thats what they're trained to do.

Who cares anyway, that's their problem. We're talking about techies, and others, who fair enough signed on the dotted line, but have never received the requisite training to say they are soldier first...

IMO it'll take someone to die, because they don't know how to react in an ambush situation, can't hit a target with their weapon or whatever, before this is recognised. However not having done the comprehensive (!!) full 2 week package maybe I'm not in a position to comment.DT_Xtremez_06:

That said I've seen the Rocks training people for a whole hour out the window walking round in arrowhead. DT_Xtremez_14: FFS at least get them onto a trg area with blanks and some smoke and try and make it realistic.

 

[rest have risen above me]

Is it me or is there an undercurrent of defeat in this thread at the moment? The rocks are the lads trained to defend us and as such should be given the manpower and kit req'd to impose a safe area for aircraft to operate from. Thats the bottom line. The undercurrent I'm getting here is that we should get more training to go and do these FP roles... BO11OX.... Johnny Regt should be doing it not Freddy techie, Sally steward or Davey Squipper. The rocks get goodness knows how much basic infrantry training (in fact probably more than basic infantry but I'm no expert) and then I'm sure that their Sqns have a decent Gulf/Stan work up period. As non rocks we shouldn't be saying give me more training we should be saying do not send me in that role. Send the boys who are trained and good at it, and train some more so they don't have to go so often.. I haven't done Afghanistan yet but I'd like the 10 day course just so I can sit in camp and God forbid we got into trouble was some sort of emergency emergency back up (The rocks would probably want to throw stones etc before they called in my marksman skillsDT_Xtremez_15: ) At the moment putting in a non combat trained techie into these posts seems to smack of WW1 desparation when pilots were sent with only 1 hours flying time and expected to fight.

Oh and Jcp keep your head down. (I have it on good authority that placing a pair of undies on your head and two pencils up your nose gets you sent home or was that gets you out of a round in some rock drinking game..DT_Xtremez_15: )

 

[Tubby]

Thats exactly my point, I dont care how many dotted lines I signed on I joined as a techie not a wanna be hero, we each have our place and mine is ensuring the growbags have a servicable frame. If they gave me the FP job I would happily meet the Doc in jail because that isn't my primary role, should the sh!t hit the fan that is another story but my role is in support of the real fighters be it cargo, medivacs or transport. I would only be a hinderance on ops with people who do that type of fighting for a living and are trained from day one to do it effectively.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

rhram I agree completely with you. I am not advocating techies receive more trg to do a role that essentially should be done by rocks. If its the odd patrol within the wire, or should the airfield be overrun then fair enough, but we are not trained to dominate the ground and deny the enemy room to mount offensive operations. What I am saying is the level of training provided to these poor souls is inadequate, and bordering on the criminally neglectful, dependent on the post they are employed in. I've been on range packages that were more than 2 weeks long, never mind as a complete work up for ops.

Furthermore it smacks of desparation within the MoD and airforce hierarchy to send essentially untrained techies and the like to do these roles. Either the RAF are prepared to do anything to not break harmony guidelines and therefore have an even greater exodus of experienced rocks or they are unwilling to ask for army support (not that there's any slack there) to lower the speed of turnaround for RAF Regt units, thereby admitting they have cut them back too far and now we can't cope with the tempo.

 

[POB]

Just one thing guys and galls. We still do not know what task has been allocated. What this "FP" post involves.

I suspect it will be a less "Tac" post within the FP organisation. Watch keeping possibly?

 

[grumpyoldb]

Has anyone actually asked the rocks if they want techies watching their backs for them?
They probably have more fears about it than techies do.

 

[tommo9999]

Has anyone actually asked the rocks if they want techies watching their backs for them?

If it's a choice between techies watching their back or no-one, they'll take the techies I'm sure.

 

[Cooheed]

If it's a choice between techies watching their back or no-one, they'll take the techies I'm sure.

No doubt, but the issue here is tradesmen carrying out duties, outwith their trade who are not really suited to the job for want of a better phrase. I've also seen a waaf officer as convoy commander and another waaf as top cover in Iraq, both there for 4 month tours. Madness IMHO DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Dave-exfairy]

I knew of a Sgt supplier who appeared on Look East TV and said he was working as a Convoy Commander and I quote "Totally different from any other job i've done in the RAF". I knew this guy when he was the Sqn stacker on 6.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

So where is all this madness coming from? How long are the rock sqns getting between tours? Surely with the loss of Rapier, field sqns were brought up to full strength and some Rapier sqns converted? Or is manning that bad?

 

[duffman]

i think this has come from pressure from the army, our bosses want the raf to be seen in a better light more able to do this sort of thing. All trades in the army do and i think they would like the airforce to do this.


Having done convoy jobs myself including cmdr, driver, top cover, a 10 day course is nothing, it leaves you miles behind when you first get there, you do more training in theatre (i'd hope) which helps. About 15 blokes in my section only 2 were from the inf DT_Xtremez_09:

Everyone else was from various odds and sods, trades and units.

The rocks get minimal turnaround times, one bloke from 51 said in 12 month period he spent 1 at lossie. They spent around 3 months training to deploy before each tour i think.