Don't ignore this just because it's about LEAN!

[Harry B'Stard]

After having a conversation with some of my seniors today I was challenged to find answers not complaints. So instead of complaining about my new task I decided to rise to the challenge.

To be honest I'm not a great fan of LEAN. I'm not sure if this is because many of the 'Leaned' places I've worked in seem to fail. Everyone seems to be working harder but not getting anywhere fast. This in itself is anti LEAN isn't it?

So I started by having a quick peek on the interweb about LEAN, it's meaning, it's uses and certain terms and phrases. Admitedly I could only find references to production, not servicing and wondered if anybody has seen it work (inside or outside the RAF).

I then thought who do I ask about LEAN. Speaking to most people you get one view or the other. You either hate it or think it's the answer to the world's problems.

So I put it to the floor... I've heard all the complaints so try not to labour the point, but is there anybody who has had a good experience of LEAN? Has anybody's job got easier or have you improved production where you work? If so, what did you do... what effect did it have?

HTB

 

[MattBombHead]

Harry,

I have seen LEAN work, but only in a production line environment.

For example, I worked in the Arm Role Bay, servicing HDERU's, LDERU's, and CBLS's.

Each line was broken down into 3 'work stations', with each work station having its tool kit specific to each set of tasks carried out on that particular work station.

For example, Stn 1 recieves the item to be serviced, strips it down, passes some parts to Stn 2, and cleans the remainder. Meanwhile, Stn 2 cleans, inspects, and gauges the articles as specified in his/ her AP. In theory, both Stn's 1 and 2 should finish at approx the same time, and pass all the components to Stn 3 for final assembly and testing. When all 3 stations are complete, the Item is placed on the NCO's check bench for final inspection and co-ordination of the paperwork.

This all works fine, up until one station has a problem (rounded screw/ item fails gauging etc) or you do not have enough manpower to cover all 3 stations. Then it all falls apart.....DT_Xtremez_08:

How the hell they can LEAN Sqns (and Guard Forces DT_Xtremez_35: ) etc and expect them to work is beyond me. Surely the point of having excess manpower is so that you can remain flexible, and cover all eventualities....?

 

[MrMasher]

LEAN worked for me in my old bay. It allowed us to lay out the work more logically and do things we hadnt previously been able to.
The problem with it is trying to suit it to the place of work which is where it tends to go wrong. People then blame LEAN instead of sorting it out.
Also people tend to try to make their petty little political points from it failing or just plain ignore advice from the shop floor of how they would the workers would like to see the work done.
An outstanding tool for highlighting sh1t managers though!!
LEAN has a reputation of chopping away manpower and leaving sections/sqns knee deep in the clag. Its a shame that they dont spend the same amount of energy solving problems as they do moaning about it!

Perhaps people should think of it as a tool for the lazy engineer. I do. For example ,why should I spend all day walking back and forth from kit to bench to stores and wherever else? Put em altogether. Basics really that we all do without thinking. Its part of a LEAN process!!!!

 

[Realist78]

In my experience, LEAN can be a good thing but only where you have a definitive process as previously mentioned i.e. where a flip flop comes in one end then goes through a series of small processes until it's resoled and pushed out of the other end. What it can't handle is wide ranging variables. Jeremy Simpler was at our VSA and he couldn't get his head round the fact that the Rects Controller said that 80% of his work is made up on the spot. He maintained that surely it could be more structured than that to which the reply was 'well you tell me which jets are coming down with what snags and when and I'll make my day better structured'. If you are producing a car (a Toyota, possibly), and require part A at a certain time and place, then that whole train of processes can be mapped out and LEANed but random events are almost impossible to LEAN IMHO.DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[MrMasher]

You dont have to lean everything!
Just do what is obvious. You dont need Mr Simpler to tell you what to do.
People cant seem to grasp the fact that its from the bottom up and thats part of the reason lean is failing. Certain posts shouldnt be involved in the process because they cant help interfereing and instilling their will onto proceedings (mainly OC's and upper upper management!!) ie political points and train sets!!
See it as free reign to improve your workplace in the way you have always wanted to.
It doesnt have to be a certain job, it could the way your in use POL is stored and used for example.

 

[Realist78]

You dont have to lean everything!
Just do what is obvious. You dont need Mr Simpler to tell you what to do.
People cant seem to grasp the fact that its from the bottom up and thats part of the reason lean is failing. Certain posts shouldnt be involved in the process because they cant help interfereing and instilling their will onto proceedings (mainly OC's and upper upper management!!) ie political points and train sets!!
See it as free reign to improve your workplace in the way you have always wanted to.
It doesnt have to be a certain job, it could the way your in use POL is stored and used for example.

Done all that and more but external agencies (supply for example) have to do their bit for us to succeed. They (Supply), in turn are having problems of their own which affect us. For example, the 'all eggs in one basket experiment' at BAe Marham has fcuked us all north of the border as far as ac rects goes simply because the stockholdings at ISL are far less than they should be. We are, after all, the largest Tonka unit but Simpler produced savings at ISL by (for example, reducing spares holdings to next to fcuk all). So, to your first point of 'Just do what is obvious', the answer to that is to increase stock holdings at ISL for a start. Easier said than done when people above yours and mine pay levels have already sold their souls to BAe in order to make the experiment work.DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Tin basher]

If you are producing a car (a Toyota, possibly), and require part A at a certain time and place, then that whole train of processes can be mapped out and LEANed but random events are almost impossible to LEAN IMHO.DT_Xtremez_19:

That just about sums it up for me. As you rightly say if it is a known process then in all probability it can be improved in some manner vis- LEAN works. But the flip side is LEAN is just not flexible enough to cope with ever changing demands of first line and associated rects hence at that point it falls over and gets a bad press. LEAN love or loathe it we are stuck with it::/:

 

[roverboy]

We had this in industry back in '88, but it was called "Just-in-time". We sat around making little stickle brick models to prove that it would help us produce printed circuit boards and it did make it more efficient. But there again WE WEREN'T SERVICING F@CKING A/C IN A FIGHTING FORCE.

 

[PLC1966]

The LEAN process in itself is a good process, and the VSA's etc I have attended have always seem to have produced results at the time. But LEAN is not always the answer. Some process's have evolved over the years just because it is the best way of doing things.

Nobody likes change, however in the Military we have always done it (as numbers of bods have lowered we have had to) and got on with it. However, I feel it is the 'push it through at any cost' to the detriment of anything else attitude of the higher management which causes a lot of the negativity towards LEAN.

 

[wolfy]

The Lean process can be very efficiant, however the support required to make a lean process work can and often is far more expensive than the methods used before lean.

For example one of the bays we supply equipment used to use 3 items of our equipment, now because of lean they now require 8. At £50K a time thats £250K increase on just one line!! spread that around the RAF and suddenly we are talking serious dosh.

 

[The Naked Stacker]

Having been an intregal part of many LEAN "event" I can see the benefits of the process, but it cannot work at a military level.

For instance, not so many moons ago at a certain wokka wokka base in Oxfordshire, we had some very intelligent consultants (who were being paid silly amounts of money to tell me to get USAS stats), and they asked me my thoughts on the LEAN system and could I help them out with the next event. I apologised and said that I couldnt as I was going to sunnier climes for a DWR

"Thats ok, we can get you to give us a hand when you get back" they replied. "What in 4 months?" i retorted. The look on their faces was priceless.

The job we do is difficult enough what with the lack of spares (dont get me started on the ridiculous procurement procedures) and general lack of morale. To then get pinged for a months worth of guard, or worse 24hrs notice to go get a tan on the queens shilling is bad enough. For your section then to run a man down for that period of time isnt manageable when you have lost all your manpower to LEAN.

I was bollocked once by my wobbly for calling LEAN nothing more than a manpower cutting exercise, is there any section out there that has been LEANED and hant lost manpower?

 

[PLC1966]

For instance, not so many moons ago at a certain wokka wokka base in Oxfordshire,

Did LEAN move the home of the Wokka Wokka from Hampshire then ?

 

[Tashy_Man]

Did LEAN move the home of the Wokka Wokka from Hampshire then ?

Probably cheaper to operate from....LEANed satis DT_Xtremez_19:

Crack on..............DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[The Naked Stacker]

Did LEAN move the home of the Wokka Wokka from Hampshire then ?

leave me alone, from up north, anywhere south of sheffield and i'm clueless

 

[roverboy]

Did LEAN move the home of the Wokka Wokka from Hampshire then ?

Isn't Benson in Oxfordshire? Don't they have Merlins or Pumas there or is it just Chinooks that are wokkas?

 

[Scaley brat]

Isn't Benson in Oxfordshire? Don't they have Merlins or Pumas there or is it just Chinooks that are wokkas?

Don't even go there you barsteward, Chinook's are PROPER helicopters, not like that plastic sh1te up at Benson or it's fun sized companion DT_Xtremez_25: !

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Isn't Benson in Oxfordshire? Don't they have Merlins or Pumas there or is it just Chinooks that are wokkas?

Thought only Chinny's were called Wokkas due to the distinctive noise made by the rotor blades?

 

[PLC1966]

Isn't Benson in Oxfordshire? Don't they have Merlins or Pumas there or is it just Chinooks that are wokkas?

Schoolboy error....

 

[Spurdog]

I was bollocked once by my wobbly for calling LEAN nothing more than a manpower cutting exercise, is there any section out there that has been LEANED and hant lost manpower?

Fancy getting a bollocking for having the temerity to speak the truth, what is this mans airforce coming to? Even ''Tossford'' got leaned, what a great idea! More courses, lots of international students (un-pc to call them arabs) coming soon and Fnuck all instructors left to teach them. One part of the turdis got leaned at lunchtime when the building was empty. Lean is all about saving a couple of pennies, the senior ringers will probably spend it on new carpets.

Spleen vented, stella induced rant ends..DT_Xtremez_34:

 

[Casual bystander]

LEAN or cuts?

LEAN or cuts?

The problem seems to be that the LEAN process is started to facilitate/ justify inevitable cuts. Anyone ever got more people because of a LEAN event? A LEAN event up North resulted in the spooks being offered a second body to ease the poor sod working on their own, and their grown ups said "no thanks he's managed ok until now!"

LEAN event = Option A - expensive but will produce happy staff and good environment, Option B - costs a few quid, not perfect but generally okay, Option C - costs nothing, staff will get hacked off and PVR (good for PMA targets) everyone will need to work 12 hr shifts but management will only have to hack it for 18 months before escaping to a new empire.

Funny option C seems to be most popular......... hence the wobble up north?