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Defence Fire Service

W

Wonky Tonka

Guest
Just curious, why do some front-line stations have RAF firefighters and others have Defence Fire Service?

Example: ISK - RAF
ISL - DFS


Nothing sinister in my question, just morbid curiousity.
 

Tashy_Man

Tashied Goatee
5,457
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Just curious, why do some front-line stations have RAF firefighters and others have Defence Fire Service?

Example: ISK - RAF
ISL - DFS


Nothing sinister in my question, just morbid curiousity.

I'm sure skevans will lets us all know !!

Crack on...........:pDT_Xtremez_09:
 
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skevans

Flight Sergeant
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The history of military firefighters extends back over 2000 years to the Roman times. Emporer Augustus founded the 'Corps of Vigiles' as a constituent part of the Roman Army in AD6, after a series of disastrous fires. This was the worlds first known, government sponsored, fire protection organisation. The training and equipment was advanced for the day and once the Roman Army withdrew from Britain there would be no organisation to rival them until the early 19th century.

The next signifiant event in the history of military firefighters was instigated by another Emporer, this time it was Napoleon 1st of France. On July 1, 1810, during a ball organized by the Austrian Ambassador in honor of the imperial couple, a fire broke out and spread rapidly. Napoleon I and Marie-Louise escaped the inferno unharmed. Having witnessed firsthand the helplessness of the firemen, the Emperor decided to militarize this trade association. From then on, firemen were firefighters, subject to unwavering discipline. They slept in station houses, always on call, and patrolled the city regularly, wearing shiny helmets to always be visible in case of smoke. They were absorbed into the French equivalent of the Roayal Engineers, and still to this day Paris, Marseille and ,I believe Tolouse, are protected by military firefighters.

There had been several large and destructive fires on RFC / RNAS / RAF camps throughout the early years of aviation when, in 1919 there was a particularly tragic and expensive fire costing almost half a million pounds and thirty two lives. This prompted the formation of a dedicated RAF Firefighting and Rescue Squadron. Although manned completely by 'volunteer' airmen it was initially trained by seconded officers from the Forerunner of todays London Fire and Rescue Service.

During the 1940's-60's there were a succession of smaller 'brigades' in the UK military, all working for one of the services, sometimes civilian and sometimes military. Dockyards had their own brigades as well, as the earliest known form of contract fire crews.

Over the years all these brigades were disbanded or merged with others to unify the fire protection on the military estate. However with the cessation of National Service in the early 60's many trades within the RAF were civilianised as there weren't enough servicemen to fill all the posts. The first Station to come wholly civilianised, but not contractorised, was RAF Lyneham.

Over the next 35 years more and more stations were transferred over to the forerunners of todays Defence Fire & Rescue Service, for a multitude of reasons. Whilst the strategic nuclear deterent was an airborne weapon system this often decided between RAF and civilian crews. At other stations it came down to money, it is perceived as cheaper to operate smaller stations with civilians. One of the reasons behind changing who staffed many stations were the drawdown of servicemen in the 1990's. Eventually on 1 April 1997 24 stations transferred overnight from the RAF, predominantly to contractors, although the DFS took a few. This signalled the return of widespread contractorisation of military fire protection 40 years after government policy had leant the other way.

Since that day only one station has transferred from the RAF to another organisation. The Joint Support Unit Corsham is now served by DF&RS since late 07, mainly due to the closure of the Shrivenham station, and manning shortages for the RAF.

Today we have fire protection supplied to the military by the RAF Firefighting & Rescue Squadron, the Royal Navy aircraft handler branch, the Defence fire & rescue service, locally employed civilians, Sodexho, Vosper Thoneycroft, Serco, Bombardier and many other contractors, under the umbrella of the Defence Fire Risk Managemant Organisation, DFRMO.
 

firestorm

Warrant Officer
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"London Fire and Rescue Service?" :pDT_Xtremez_25: Never has been, never will be. Its London Fire Brigade!:pDT_Xtremez_28: It has been since 1904 when it was officially named as such in an act of parliament but it was known locally as such many years before.

Other than that abomination it was a good post mate.::p:
French firefighters are all military. Sapeurs Pompiers. (SP)
 
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skevans

Flight Sergeant
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Ok, I'll concede the fact that your titled as London Fire Brigade. In this day and age many brigades have renamed as 'XYZ fire and rescue service' to recognise the wider role of the profession.

However. The London Fire Brigade, as established by Parlimentary Act was Disestablished in 1941 and absorbed into the National Fire Service, again by a Parlimentary Act.

The Fire Services Act 1947 repealed the previous legislation and allowed local authorities to control fire protection, therefore denationalising the fire service.

In the case of London Fire Brigade, they were 'numberplated' as the LFB in 1948. So can I be the first to congratulate you on reaching 60 years in your present guise. :pDT_Xtremez_42: ::p:
 

firestorm

Warrant Officer
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Ok, I'll concede the fact that your titled as London Fire Brigade. In this day and age many brigades have renamed as 'XYZ fire and rescue service' to recognise the wider role of the profession.

However. The London Fire Brigade, as established by Parlimentary Act was Disestablished in 1941 and absorbed into the National Fire Service, again by a Parlimentary Act.

The Fire Services Act 1947 repealed the previous legislation and allowed local authorities to control fire protection, therefore denationalising the fire service.

In the case of London Fire Brigade, they were 'numberplated' as the LFB in 1948. So can I be the first to congratulate you on reaching 60 years in your present guise. :pDT_Xtremez_42: ::p:

You can, but you'd be short by a few years. All Uk fire brigades were absorbed into the AFS during the second world war and then reinstated in 1947 as you said. So I'll concede we had a brief hiatus in the war years but we were established formally in 1904.
http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/about_us/our_history/key_dates.asp

So we are in fact 104 years old...and by looking at some of the stations it shows. F47 Clerkenwell was built in 1872 and is possibly the worlds oldest operational fire station.
 
W

Wonky Tonka

Guest
Thanks to Skevans for the in-depth response.

I was just curious as to why some of the Strike Command stations were manned by "civvy" firefighters. I expected to see them at PTC units, but always thought that operational units were staffed by Blue-suits.

(Yes, I know we are all Air Command now, but it makes it easier to illustrate my point.)
 

skevans

Flight Sergeant
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Thanks to Skevans for the in-depth response.

I was just curious as to why some of the Strike Command stations were manned by "civvy" firefighters. I expected to see them at PTC units, but always thought that operational units were staffed by Blue-suits.

(Yes, I know we are all Air Command now, but it makes it easier to illustrate my point.)

That thought has prevailed through the years at various times, but the troube is that as stations have closed and units relocated, what was once a 'non strike' unit may now be a 'strike' unit or vice-versa. RAF Lossiemouth for instance, was transferred to the DFS when it flew Shackletons, yet now Tonka's fly from there.
 

docbombhead

Sergeant
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Do the Army have fire fighter as a trade ? I ask because in one of the adverts on TV where it says there's over 140 jobs in the Army they flash up different pictures of people in whatever Regts, jobs they do etc and one of the photo's is of a bloke in SCBA and yellow helmet ooer. Advert spotting phase over !!
 

skevans

Flight Sergeant
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No the Army don't have military firefighters. The Army fire service is 100% civilian and is a subdivision of DFRMO.

I'm intrigued by that advert now so I will have to check it out myself, although I am guessing that it might be some sort of bizzare reference to Op Fresco Zulu, or the very few soldiers that come to Manston for training from the Hereford gun club.
 
F

firefly

Guest
Firefly (Essex Fire)

Firefly (Essex Fire)

:pDT_Xtremez_15:Oh contraire, Firestorm not all French firefighters are attached to the Military! We have just had a Frenchie over on an exchange, and he tells it like Skevens, only big cities are protected by Sapeur Pompier.
"London Fire and Rescue Service?" :pDT_Xtremez_25: Never has been, never will be. Its London Fire Brigade!:pDT_Xtremez_28: It has been since 1904 when it was officially named as such in an act of parliament but it was known locally as such many years before.

Other than that abomination it was a good post mate.::p:
French firefighters are all military. Sapeurs Pompiers. (SP)
 

firestorm

Warrant Officer
5,028
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The majority are though. The rest, like this country are retained (part time) and do it as a second occupation. Kind of like an always on call TA/reserve.
 

skevans

Flight Sergeant
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The sapeurs-pompiers are the firefighters of France. They are organized, supervised and trained by the French Ministry of the Interior; specifically, they fall under the Civil Defence and Security Directorate. There are approximately 250,584 fire service personnel in France.

Of these roughly 9283 posts are military firefighters (sapeurs-pompiers militaires — SPM)

Military firefighters are directly recruited and trained by the Paris or Marseilles Fire Brigades, but they maintain a military status in the same way as the United States Coast Guard is considered a military service.
o Paris Fire Brigade (Brigade des sapeurs-pompiers de Paris, BSPP; part of the engineers of the French Army) — 7,366
o Marseilles Marine Fire Battalion (Bataillon de marins-pompiers de Marseille, BMPM; part of the French Navy) — 1,917

So the french fire service is not 'all military', nor is the majority. In fact fewer than 1 in 25 is a military firefighter.
 
F

fozz154

Guest
civy firefighter jobs

civy firefighter jobs

hi, does any1 know any links/people/websites to look at firefighter jobs on MOD/ RAF bases? im ex RAF Fire service, served for years and would like to get into the DFS / MOD as a firefighter, any information will be great, email me fozzy154@hotmail.com cheers
 

skevans

Flight Sergeant
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I understand that the current policy is to recruit DFS firefighters via job centres.

If you are looking for a job at a contractor run station, then you will have to contact the contractor direct.
 
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