Fire Cover....

[Icycalm]

Can someone give me a quick run down on "not having the correct fire cover for Herc's to land at your own base"

This is not a sly dig or a p155 take, I'm genuinely interested.

Cheers

 

[R_Squared]

It's past 8pm, have you been at the Bombay?
I only ask because your question makes no sense. Are you saying they can't land at Conningsby?

 

[monobrow]

I think this is perhaps to do with the classic "We're not landing at your base, we're landing at ours, enjoy the coach ride!"

It was posted on the goat a while back, but can't remember why.

 

[R_Squared]

I see, In that case I suppose a Crash Cat could make the difference.
If the manning & equipment aren't available at the home base it could be a reason.
If there are over a certain number of passengers you need a higher Crash Category than a Fast Jet station can provide.
There could be any number of other reasons why they didn't drop you off direct, though.
It's a f@cker but these things happen

 

[True Blue Jack]

Conz must have a higher Crash Cat than Banja Luka ever had? Hercs flew in there twice a week for years, and all they had was one geriatric fire engine with a couple of (usually pi$$ed) locally employed firemen. There may well be valid reasons for flying into Wiltshire and bussing the whole squadron up the motorway for 4 hours, but Fire Section Crash Cats must be an excuse, surely?

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Conz must have a higher Crash Cat than Banja Luka ever had? Hercs flew in there twice a week for years, and all they had was one geriatric fire engine with a couple of (usually pi$$ed) locally employed firemen. There may well be valid reasons for flying into Wiltshire and bussing the whole squadron up the motorway for 4 hours, but Fire Section Crash Cats must be an excuse, surely?

Maybe its so the civvy cnuts that work in MT can take you all round the streets and houses back from Brize Norton so they can claim their Sunday time and a half or whatever they get (4 hours from brize to witters - i ask you)

 

[R_Squared]

It could be, but who told him that it was the Crash Cat that caused the problem?
Specific circumstances could preclude the use of the airframe at that base in the UK, which wouldn't be a problem elsewhere in the world.
When I worked at Lye it happened occasionally that a Sqn was not dropped at home, but if it happened it was usually down to the frame being needed elsewhere.
You could of course give the Staion Ops desk at Lye a tinkle and ask them. They may or may not know what happened, and will be glad to tell you. (probably)
DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[wgaf]

It could be, but who told him that it was the Crash Cat that caused the problem?
Specific circumstances could preclude the use of the airframe at that base in the UK, which wouldn't be a problem elsewhere in the world.
When I worked at Lye it happened occasionally that a Sqn was not dropped at home, but if it happened it was usually down to the frame being needed elsewhere.
You could of course give the Staion Ops desk at Lye a tinkle and ask them. They may or may not know what happened, and will be glad to tell you. (probably)
DT_Xtremez_42:

rojaws, you're quite correct, these things are done on a priority basis and not just because the aircrew want to fekk people about.
Until recently I was on the "other" side and used to get hugely p1ssed off with being dropped at Lyneham and then have to have the drive to whatever base I was at. The fact of the matter is we don't have enough airframes for the tasks we are allocated. The frame that has just bought a squadron back from det will almost certainly be needed for other tasks.
Wether people like it or not once you arrive back in the UK you are no longer a priority task. The frame could well be required for repats etc. and I would hope that no one would think that saving themselves a coach trip, no matter how long is more important than that.

 

[gemarriott]

rojaws, you're quite correct, these things are done on a priority basis and not just because the aircrew want to fekk people about.
Until recently I was on the "other" side and used to get hugely p1ssed off with being dropped at Lyneham and then have to have the drive to whatever base I was at. The fact of the matter is we don't have enough airframes for the tasks we are allocated. The frame that has just bought a squadron back from det will almost certainly be needed for other tasks.
Wether people like it or not once you arrive back in the UK you are no longer a priority task. The frame could well be required for repats etc. and I would hope that no one would think that saving themselves a coach trip, no matter how long is more important than that.

You know yourself that frequently we are fed bullsh1t reasons for why we go to Brize or Lyneham instead of base. Perhaps if the guy making up the excuses stopped for a moment to realise that we are all aware of operational requirements and told the truth people would be less p1ssed off.

 

[wgaf]

You know yourself that frequently we are fed bullsh1t reasons for why we go to Brize or Lyneham instead of base. Perhaps if the guy making up the excuses stopped for a moment to realise that we are all aware of operational requirements and told the truth people would be less p1ssed off.

Agree completely fella, however sometimes these frames are used for work of a highly sensitive nature and the details are just not made available to the guy making up the excuses. That said there is no excuse for not explaining as much as possible and apologising that you have dropped down the priority list. Common good manners thats called.

 

[FOMz]

Icycalm,
As others have stated here it could well be down to a multitude of reasons. If it was the crash cat as you said, Rojaws is right. If CGY was unable to meet the minimum crash cat requirement for the Herc, they won't land there. I suspect that if something did happen, you would want enough fireman and equipment available to get you out and put out the fire, at the end of the day the captain is responsible for the safety of his crew passengers and airframe.

It might well have been that the airframe was required to go out on another route the next day. Only a few hours to CGY though I hear you say. Ask any of the LYE linies on how long it takes to prep a Herc for route, freight load etc etc etc, its not just done in half an hour, so every hour on the ground is needed.

Think flip side - you're waiting around at LYE for an aircraft to go out, but its delayed because the pilot 'popped' into CGY to drop off some guys the night before. You'd be crowing like fook about the delays.

If you PM the Callsign to me, I'll look into it for you tomorrow.....

 

[gemarriott]

Agree completely fella, however sometimes these frames are used for work of a highly sensitive nature and the details are just not made available to the guy making up the excuses. That said there is no excuse for not explaining as much as possible and apologising that you have dropped down the priority list. Common good manners thats called.

Too true.A bollox excuse does nobody any favours but a simple "we have to get back ti lye ASAP as the frame is needed for........................" is sufficient. We are all grown ups and understand the delicate stuff all that is needed is for the excuse makers to realise it and drop the bollox. Same thing happens every day in airports around the world though and the same crap excuses get trolled out there too.DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[The Masked Geek]

My favourite incident like this was "Sorry, the herc is needed to take some stuff out to Als Garage, you'll have to spend two days [getting w4nkered] in Cyprus before we get you back to Blighty" result. DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[skevans]

Crash categories are used at every airfield. In its purest form it is a highly complicated formula involving fuel loads, weapons, materials, aircraft size, etc, to decide upon the minimum ammount of firefighters and vehicles required to save life should an incident occur. This is known as the critical area concept.

As i have stated on previous posts the fire service only has 3 minutes to save your life, if you become involved in an incident. Of this we are allowed 2 minutes travelling time, and only 1 minute to make conditions survivable. To do this we need to effectively deploy adequate (and properly manned) fire vehicles, and be capable of discharging a sufficient ammount of foam and water within one minute, with a continual requirement for the following minutes, until the situation is concluded.

I'm trying to make this simple, but hope it still makes sense.

Coningsby operates at crash cat 3. The Hercules is a crash cat 4 aircraft. Therefore it cant land at conningsby without the crash cat being upgraded.

However before you all start jumping down my throat blaming firefighters for being lazy, please spare a thought for the fact that air traffic would be authorised to accept a below cat aircraft up to a set number of times a calender month, (locally set by a different calculation method) and ultimately the decision rests with the captain of the aircraft. He can land at any airfield at his discretion, regardless of crash cat.

Whilst I dont know anything about this specific case, I would be tempted to beleive that the crash cat is being used as an excuse.