British Army will slash hundreds of jobs despite Boris Johnson's pledge to pump an extra £16.5bn into the UK's defences, leaked documents reveal

[Dan_Brown]

British Army will slash hundreds of jobs, leaked documents reveal

Leaked documents reveal plans to dramatically reduce the number of British soldiers in backroom roles who provide critical support for combat troops.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"But documents seen by The Mail on Sunday show a major job-cutting review is under way in the Adjutant General's Corps, although Army sources said any job losses will be through natural wastage rather than redundancies."

They’re doing the same to our HR, it’s all going centralised and they’re reducing the trade down too. It's a shame though, but they only have themselves to blame, places were closed more than they were open - "Training days".

Mate at another Unit was telling me that during the last few months that you have to email in that you want to speak to HR and they will get back to you with an appointment time - wtf?!

 

[busby1971]

In these days of self or shared service the typical employee shouldn't be going anywhere near a HR person for routine activity, accepting of course that in the Military there's a whole heap of welfare and unusual activity going on.

Being old of tooth I do value my early years experience interacting directly with employees, I think it's made me a better professional now, especially supporting people in the current climate, and I can see a lack of empathy in my modern colleagues who just haven't had the same upbringing.

However, when it comes down asking a general where he wants to spend his money, or director in civi street, it will rarely be on HR, and whilst they might support the lack of service at peer meetings and in private they are just as likely to slag of HR to the poor service they have chosen for their team. It's easy to get good HR, pay for it, if you are getting crap HR support its because that is what the bosses think you should have.

 

[Dan_Brown]

Should have been clearer, this wasn't just to book a physical appt, but to speak with a HR bod ie telephone/VOIP.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Should have been clearer, this wasn't just to book a physical appt, but to speak with a HR bod ie telephone/VOIP.

Isnt that what other trades have done for a while? I dont recall being able to wander into the RAFP CI section unannounced and expect the SNCO to drop everything to speak to me about something, nor do I recall being able to wander into the medical or dental centre and be seen straight away. Similarly, airfield driving permits were only validated at certain times, the cashier was only open at certain times, FMT600's were only stamped at certain times, the tailors was once a week/fortnight (by appointment), and barrack/clothing stores had stated opening times.

In fact, pretty much every area that provided a "service" had designated times, usually dictated by their workload and how many staff they had available. TG17 has already been cut to the bone and civilianised. If those CS are the type that are shielding/isolating/clinically vulnerable (and as a guidance, around 40% of my office disappeared in March due to one of those 3 characteristics), then it doesnt leave many blue/green suits to deal with the queries.

Just like PAYD, you reap what you sow. The MOD decided that military HR wasnt that important. In the cold light of day, if you have to wait to speak to someone about your leave, is it really that much of a problem?

 

[Downsizer]

I'm genuinely struggling to think of the last time I actually needed to speak to anyone in PSF/HR? Must be at least 6 or more years, and including 3 postings...

 

[Dan_Brown]

Isnt that what other trades have done for a while? I dont recall being able to wander into the RAFP CI section unannounced and expect the SNCO to drop everything to speak to me about something, nor do I recall being able to wander into the medical or dental centre and be seen straight away. Similarly, airfield driving permits were only validated at certain times, the cashier was only open at certain times, FMT600's were only stamped at certain times, the tailors was once a week/fortnight (by appointment), and barrack/clothing stores had stated opening times.

In fact, pretty much every area that provided a "service" had designated times, usually dictated by their workload and how many staff they had available. TG17 has already been cut to the bone and civilianised. If those CS are the type that are shielding/isolating/clinically vulnerable (and as a guidance, around 40% of my office disappeared in March due to one of those 3 characteristics), then it doesnt leave many blue/green suits to deal with the queries.

Just like PAYD, you reap what you sow. The MOD decided that military HR wasnt that important. In the cold light of day, if you have to wait to speak to someone about your leave, is it really that much of a problem?

Med/Dental centre, MT (fecks knows why) - agreed, other sections, disagree. Where i am now there is always people at the CI section and taking visitors - yes, it has slowed down and people don't visit if they don't have to, but the door is always open if needed.

HR is valuable and i think we will come to regret this obvious cost cutting measure, especially on the Sqns, but HR personnel have to take some responsibility.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Med/Dental centre, MT (fecks knows why) - agreed, other sections, disagree. Where i am now there is always people at the CI section and taking visitors - yes, it has slowed down and people don't visit if they don't have to, but the door is always open if needed.

HR is valuable and i think we will come to regret this obvious cost cutting measure, especially on the Sqns, but HR personnel have to take some responsibility.

Yep. Massive drop in level of service before I left. HR/MT/Supply...told my mate years ago before I left that there poor attitudes will end them eventually. And it is getting there. Not just those trades though!!! Tg4 had a massive drop in service and abilities after dumbing down the trade. The common results have been promoting Yes people/BSers and the Self-Serving to the detriment of service need in all cases. Like promoting like.

Interestingly no talk of reducing TOP BRASS...again!!!

 

[busby1971]

Yep. Massive drop in level of service before I left. HR/MT/Supply...told my mate years ago before I left that there poor attitudes will end them eventually. And it is getting there. Not just those trades though!!! Tg4 had a massive drop in service and abilities after dumbing down the trade. The common results have been promoting Yes people/BSers and the Self-Serving to the detriment of service need in all cases. Like promoting like.

Interestingly no talk of reducing TOP BRASS...again!!!

Apart from the idle and incompetent most people of all trades want to do their best for their colleagues and service users, however, they can only use the resources they have been given to do the best they can.

If you are the type of individual who fumes after a 30 minute on hold and then off load on the poor sod who picks up your call, whilst still expecting to get the cheapest product or service then you need to look in the mirror.

I was asked to deliver a 7 day 6am to midnight service, sure no problems, 30% of me initially for set up then it’s just added to my radar, plus 6 FTE to cover the deliverable, you’ve got 3.5FTE make it work they say.

 

[Cooheed]

I saw things going round the U bend about 10 years ago. Left nearly 6 years ago but pains me to read this continual erosion of people, with them up stairs wanting more than blood out of a stone.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Apart from the idle and incompetent most people of all trades want to do their best for their colleagues and service users, however, they can only use the resources they have been given to do the best they can.

If you are the type of individual who fumes after a 30 minute on hold and then off load on the poor sod who picks up your call, whilst still expecting to get the cheapest product or service then you need to look in the mirror.

I was asked to deliver a 7 day 6am to midnight service, sure no problems, 30% of me initially for set up then it’s just added to my radar, plus 6 FTE to cover the deliverable, you’ve got 3.5FTE make it work they say.

Hi Busby.

Can I ask what FTE is?

Also: Yes there are idle and incompetent people but the most grating thing that was happening in my personal opinion was the agressive and belittling attitude that was now being employed to prevent people asking for entitled things such as transport/allowances etc. Or even provide helpful advice or assistance. This was due to a combination of people being over-promoted; insecure; incompetent; building empires etc. The attitude was becoming even more toxic as the years go by. The HR and MT at my last unit a prime example!!! Pity since there was some really helpful, good people in these departments, untainted, but stymied by the culture created.

"Isolated incidents" were becoming more rife across a number of trades and you could feel and hear the frustrations of numerous personnel. The irony being the majority of these personnel being the "good workers" who actually do the job. But they, as myself, have been forced to watch the thrusting of out-of-their depth, incompetent bullying management who don't know their own jobs and so get-by by "having a go" at people. The reality is these people are self-serving and useful idiots for the powers-that-be to thin the bottom while getting blood out of the stone. These people also provide a shield for the Officer core, as since these useful idiots are thick, gives them plenty of latitude to do anything they want while having plausible deniability when it goes wrong!

You say no-one sets out to do a bad job. No they don't. BUT when you have a dishonest reporting system that tries to avoid at all costs to say bad things, or even mention how that individual needs to improve, says we are all good at our jobs no matter what then you have people who mean well but don't actually deliver on their job IAW TORs.

 

[busby1971]

Hi Busby.

Can I ask what FTE is?

Also: Yes there are idle and incompetent people but the most grating thing that was happening in my personal opinion was the agressive and belittling attitude that was now being employed to prevent people asking for entitled things such as transport/allowances etc. Or even provide helpful advice or assistance. This was due to a combination of people being over-promoted; insecure; incompetent; building empires etc. The attitude was becoming even more toxic as the years go by. The HR and MT at my last unit a prime example!!! Pity since there was some really helpful, good people in these departments, untainted, but stymied by the culture created.

"Isolated incidents" were becoming more rife across a number of trades and you could feel and hear the frustrations of numerous personnel. The irony being the majority of these personnel being the "good workers" who actually do the job. But they, as myself, have been forced to watch the thrusting of out-of-their depth, incompetent bullying management who don't know their own jobs and so get-by by "having a go" at people. The reality is these people are self-serving and useful idiots for the powers-that-be to thin the bottom while getting blood out of the stone. These people also provide a shield for the Officer core, as since these useful idiots are thick, gives them plenty of latitude to do anything they want while having plausible deniability when it goes wrong!

You say no-one sets out to do a bad job. No they don't. BUT when you have a dishonest reporting system that tries avoid at all costs to say bad things, or even mention how that individual needs to improve, says we are all good at our jobs no matter what then you have people who mean well but don't actually deliver on their job IAW TORs.

Full Time Equivalent.

Any PDR system will only get it right most of the time, and internal recruiting systems can fail too, even in a heavily matrixed organisation your typical HR leader can only exert so much control without tangible proof of wrong doing.

 

[StickyFingers]

Also: Yes there are idle and incompetent people but the most grating thing that was happening in my personal opinion was the agressive and belittling attitude that was now being employed to prevent people asking for entitled things such as transport/allowances etc. Or even provide helpful advice or assistance. This was due to a combination of people being over-promoted; insecure; incompetent; building empires etc. The attitude was becoming even more toxic as the years go by. The HR and MT at my last unit a prime example!!! Pity since there was some really helpful, good people in these departments, untainted, but stymied by the culture created.

Or.... you can use this to your advantage. Everything we do or need to do is written down in APs. MAPs, JSPs etc... if you have an understanding of it and they don't you always have the upper hand in almost every situation. Nothing better than totally destroying an over-promoted; insecure; incompetent; empire building in front of their peers.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Sometimes things need to break before they get fixed. If you are genuinely asking for something that you need (not like, or prefer) to complete your task and another dept is refusing to provide you with that, put your request in writing and ask them to put their refusal in writing, then let the task fail. If they refuse to put it in writing, re-send the request to their boss, copying in your boss etc.

Eventually, your e-mail will either reach someone with enough balls to reply to you explaining why your request is denied, or enough common sense to overrule the jobsworths below them in the pecking order. Plus, your boss will also know that you have done your utmost to achieve the task and the failure is down to HR/MT/GEF/IT Section.

 

[Rigga]

HR is valuable and i think we will come to regret this obvious cost cutting measure, especially on the Sqns, but HR personnel have to take some responsibility.

There was a big realisation of 'value' when they got rid of Guardroom Staff and someone then had to hand out Sheets, keys, passes and look after parades, local history and burials....but the RAF soon got over it and now your made to feel special when given the out-of-trade job of SWO.

With (I assume) 99% of personal admin done personally and on-line there cant be a real need to keep a whole trade of staff for that 1% remaining....?

 

[fourteen2two]

Guardroom staff only worked Monday to Friday, duty airman,cpi,sgt did their job at lunchtime and out of hours anyway.
No great loss getting rid of them.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Off topic but relevant:

An old Youtube video that fires at Disney...BUT. If you listen to you can see the parallels in a corporate structure including that of the MOD where perception is more important than reality!!!

 

[Cooheed]

Hi Busby.

Can I ask what FTE is?

Also: Yes there are idle and incompetent people but the most grating thing that was happening in my personal opinion was the agressive and belittling attitude that was now being employed to prevent people asking for entitled things such as transport/allowances etc. Or even provide helpful advice or assistance. This was due to a combination of people being over-promoted; insecure; incompetent; building empires etc. The attitude was becoming even more toxic as the years go by. The HR and MT at my last unit a prime example!!! Pity since there was some really helpful, good people in these departments, untainted, but stymied by the culture created.

"Isolated incidents" were becoming more rife across a number of trades and you could feel and hear the frustrations of numerous personnel. The irony being the majority of these personnel being the "good workers" who actually do the job. But they, as myself, have been forced to watch the thrusting of out-of-their depth, incompetent bullying management who don't know their own jobs and so get-by by "having a go" at people. The reality is these people are self-serving and useful idiots for the powers-that-be to thin the bottom while getting blood out of the stone. These people also provide a shield for the Officer core, as since these useful idiots are thick, gives them plenty of latitude to do anything they want while having plausible deniability when it goes wrong!

You say no-one sets out to do a bad job. No they don't. BUT when you have a dishonest reporting system that tries avoid at all costs to say bad things, or even mention how that individual needs to improve, says we are all good at our jobs no matter what then you have people who mean well but don't actually deliver on their job IAW TORs.

Some of my 6442 pulled no punches lol. Heard of plenty F6000's in my time, being sent back because 'you can't say that'.....

 

[stereolab]

Isnt that what other trades have done for a while? I dont recall being able to wander into the RAFP CI section unannounced and expect the SNCO to drop everything to speak to me about something, nor do I recall being able to wander into the medical or dental centre and be seen straight away. Similarly, airfield driving permits were only validated at certain times, the cashier was only open at certain times, FMT600's were only stamped at certain times, the tailors was once a week/fortnight (by appointment), and barrack/clothing stores had stated opening times.

In fact, pretty much every area that provided a "service" had designated times, usually dictated by their workload and how many staff they had available. TG17 has already been cut to the bone and civilianised. If those CS are the type that are shielding/isolating/clinically vulnerable (and as a guidance, around 40% of my office disappeared in March due to one of those 3 characteristics), then it doesnt leave many blue/green suits to deal with the queries.

Just like PAYD, you reap what you sow. The MOD decided that military HR wasnt that important. In the cold light of day, if you have to wait to speak to someone about your leave, is it really that much of a problem?

On 2 separate units, one overseas, I found myself with time on my hands, as StationCashier. I opened my cage earlier and closed it later than advertised. OK , until O C Admin picked up on it, gave me a rollicking and told me, in no uncertain terms not to open outside the posted times. As a young LAC on an operational unit, with huge numbers of shift workers, I asked if we could provide an out-of-hours service,after 1700. The clerk doing this task would be stood down earlier in the day to take into account this task. My FS looked at me as if I was an idiot and told me never to broach the subject again.

 

[Dan_Brown]

There was a big realisation of 'value' when they got rid of Guardroom Staff and someone then had to hand out Sheets, keys, passes and look after parades, local history and burials....but the RAF soon got over it and now your made to feel special when given the out-of-trade job of SWO.

With (I assume) 99% of personal admin done personally and on-line there cant be a real need to keep a whole trade of staff for that 1% remaining....?

On 2 separate units, one overseas, I found myself with time on my hands, as StationCashier. I opened my cage earlier and closed it later than advertised. OK , until O C Admin picked up on it, gave me a rollicking and told me, in no uncertain terms not to open outside the posted times. As a young LAC on an operational unit, with huge numbers of shift workers, I asked if we could provide an out-of-hours service,after 1700. The clerk doing this task would be stood down earlier in the day to take into account this task. My FS looked at me as if I was an idiot and told me never to broach the subject again.

Mutty wasn't your FS was he?!

I jest, I've read the stories here how he tried to make a difference, but was shafted. Plus he has helped me when i've had HR 'issues'.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Mutty wasn't your FS was he?!

I jest, I've read the stories here how he tried to make a difference, but was shafted. Plus he has helped me when i've had HR 'issues'.

God no! Clerks who made FS were not known for their flexibility or Customer-Service focus.

Every FJ Sqn HR Section that I worked in or managed operated a split shift system from 1994 through to 2010. One would start at 0730 and finish at 1530, one would start at 10 and finish at 6 and if there were any more, they'd fill in the gaps. The agreement was that lunches were as quick as possible, unless you were sporting. Would it surprise you if I said that none of those offices ever had a backlog and none of them were ever criticised by the Sqn's Engineers, pilots, ops staff etc (our customers), but every one of them was criticised by PSF management, some of whom accused me of "arse wiping".