Electoral reform

[Ex-Bay]

That pay rise was given by the labour party. They gave us the 3% in the April and the rest was promised in the June. In the meantime they had an election and she waltzed in and gave us the remainder straight away. What about all the crap pay rises after. We had one, one year which was in 2 stages 1/2% in the nov and 1% in the January. I think it was that year food and accom went up more than the pay rise, she did that a few times.

That was not the first time by any means.
I recall a pay rise which was wiped out by an increase in Income Tax.
Several of us though seriously about asking for the old pay rate.

 

[Combet Sheep]

Gordon will go... Milliband will step in... watch this space.

I'm thinking the same. Milliband is much more palatable than Brown.

 

[FOMz]

Milliband is a genuine nice bloke, just like Clegg. Whereas Cameron is a smarmy and ever so smug pratt and Broon has no people skills whatsoever.

 

[Bucc Boy]

Originally Posted by MingMong
'...I'm sure that the BNP would be pretty pleased with the dozen seats that they would get using the PR system based on last night's results.'


And if that's not a powerful argument for keeping the current system, I don't know what is!

Personally I think a hung parliament every time is a dreadful proposition, and am glad that this election has produced only the first since 1974. It must also be remembered that the 5 hung parliaments of the 20th century were all dissolved in fairly short order and another General Election held. Is this what we want, to be like Italy, where they've had a new government for virtually every year since 1945? I think there will be another General Election soon, probably this year, definitely before stumps are drawn on 2011.

It must also be borne in mind that when we vote, we are NOT electing a goverment. Rather we are choosing one person from a given selection to represent us in our chosen constituency.

However, there is an argument for presenting the case for reform to the electorate in the form of a plebiscite, and I rather fancy that that will happen. If that proposed reform takes the form of proportional representation then I shall vote against , but as I have stated before, the British people WILL speak, and their voice WILL be imperial.

Love the BNP or hate them, it must be realised than nigh on 1,000,000 people in Britain voted for them. So to suggest that keeping the BNP out of parliament it is a good reason for not changing the current system, rings of self-righteousness at the least!

Just because, you personally, don't agree with 1,000,000 British citizens who got off their asre to vote, doesn’t mean their opinions are best kept quiet.

I might not agree with their policies either, but just remember the difference between Britain and the Middle East, here we will fight for the individuals right to express an opinion whether we agree with it or not.

By the way, what is all this ‘and their voice WILL be imperial’ stuff, are you sure you don’t have any BNP tendencies?

 

[gemarriott]

Milliband is a genuine nice bloke, just like Clegg. Whereas Cameron is a smarmy and ever so smug pratt and Broon has no people skills whatsoever.

Milliband is just another c0ck clone of Mandleson. Every time I see the smarmy bast@rd on the box I want to put a brick though it. He is moe B-liar than B-liar himself.

The more I see and hear these New Liarbour tw@ts trying to cling to power the more I wish we had the guts to line them up against the Thames and issue them a couple of ounces of lead each!

 

[FOMz]

So you're telling me that Cameron and his smarmy Etonion bum boy mates aren't of the same ilk???

If you say no - then you are just blind.


and stupid.



and senile.


DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[pie sandwich]

Milliband is just another c0ck clone of Mandleson. Every time I see the smarmy bast@rd on the box I want to put a brick though it. He is moe B-liar than B-liar himself.

The more I see and hear these New Liarbour tw@ts trying to cling to power the more I wish we had the guts to line them up against the Thames and issue them a couple of ounces of lead each!

Gem you got it in one, he is the love child of Madleson and Blair. I don't quite know what it is I can't put my finger on it but there is something that just says don't trust him ( or trust him less than any other mp)

 

[gemarriott]

So you're telling me that Cameron and his smarmy Etonion bum boy mates aren't of the same ilk???

If you say no - then you are just blind.


and stupid.



and senile.


DT_Xtremez_14:

No I'm just telling you that Milliband is a smarmy c0ck clone of Madleson and that he is more B-liar than B-liar himself.

I never mentioned Maceroon, Cleggy or even compo come to think of it, and who the fcuk are you calling blind? I can see well enough to spot a smarmy lying bast'rd on the telly thank you DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[busby1971]

Eh?

Eh?

Love the BNP or hate them, it must be realised than nigh on 1,000,000 people in Britain voted for them. So to suggest that keeping the BNP out of parliament it is a good reason for not changing the current system, rings of self-righteousness at the least!

Just because, you personally, don't agree with 1,000,000 British citizens who got off their asre to vote, doesn’t mean their opinions are best kept quiet.

I might not agree with their policies either, but just remember the difference between Britain and the Middle East, here we will fight for the individuals right to express an opinion whether we agree with it or not.

By the way, what is all this ‘and their voice WILL be imperial’ stuff, are you sure you don’t have any BNP tendencies?

600,000 is not not nigh on a 1,000,000 it's just over a half or six tenths but not nigh on a million. Additionally how many BNP candidates lost their deposit, I know my local one did, under PR they'd probably have got 20 seats, scary if you ask me. By the way the other extreme party, the greens, managed to get an MP with only 250,000 votes.

PR is not good, BNP are not good the greens are not good, sorry but I don't have the answer to our current problems but I would like to see a change to the status quo.

 

[busby1971]

Milliband

Milliband

Despite one of their stutter coaching I would not like to see either of the Millibands in power, the sons of left wing intellectuals I guess that taxation and spending would continue to rise until the next pot of cash runs out.

Eitherway I doubt anybody would want to take over just now, better to save themselves for later and come back at a nicer time, a bit like bLair.

Ed Balls may take it as he's got a very small majority and may not make it through the next election, smarmy git.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

UKIP gained 917,832 votes (3.1%) yet secured no seats. The Alliance Party gained one MP with 42,000 votes.

Is this a truly representative system?

 

[The Masked Geek]

PR would basically give us the same government forever. Until somebody got rid of it again anyway.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

PR would basically give us the same government forever. Until somebody got rid of it again anyway.

Not true, as the German CDU/FDP mob in power now have been beaten by the SPD/Greens on a number of occations over the the 55 years of the German PR system.

 

[John Lloyd]

Not true, as the German CDU/FDP mob in power now have been beaten by the SPD/Greens on a number of occations over the the 55 years of the German PR system.

That will be the PR system devised by the British, post WWII to prevent democratic dictatorship. A little bit of 'Do as I say, not as I do'?

 

[MAINJAFAD]

That will be the PR system devised by the British, post WWII to prevent democratic dictatorship. A little bit of 'Do as I say, not as I do'?

Quite True, hopefully the a Tories/LD pact will at least allow a referendum on PR so that we the British people can state what we really want on the matter without other matters getting in the way. Plus democratic dictatorship in the UK on both sides of the Left/Right division over the last 31 years has been what has got the Country in the mess that it is in now.

 

[John Lloyd]

Quite True, hopefully the a Tories/LD pact will at least allow a referendum on PR so that we the British people can state what we really want on the matter without other matters getting in the way. Plus democratic dictatorship in the UK on both sides of the Left/Right division over the last 31 years has been what has got the Country in the mess that it is in now.

Or, Cameron promises all to get Gobdon out and himself in, then drops Cleggy's trousers. Much the same as Bliars empty promises to Paddy Ashdown in '97.

A benign dictatorship is a terrible thing.........Until you are the dictator.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Or, Cameron promises all to get Gobdon out and himself in, then drops Cleggy's trousers. Much the same as Bliars empty promises to Paddy Ashdown in '97.

A benign dictatorship is a terrible thing.........Until you are the dictator.

Almost.....But unlike Bliar's empty promises to Paddy in 97 after the biggest Labour's landslide ever, Cameron's lot need Cleggy to get rid of Brown and to stay in power for any length of time. Tories may go for the limited option of a 6-18 month go it alone minority government, do the cuts required with the LD's not taking them out with a No-confidence vote until they are really unpopular and then really sticking the knife in with a No-confidence vote. Tories really need a 5 year term to stand any chance of getting back in and doing what they really want to do.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Quite True, hopefully the a Tories/LD pact will at least allow a referendum on PR so that we the British people can state what we really want on the matter without other matters getting in the way.

It can be very dangerous to give people what they think they want rather than what they know they need. PR has the unique selling point of being 'fair' but it would mean the end of single-party politics in this country and I'm not sure anybody really understands what would fall out of that particular Pandora's box.

I have a feeling that gifting 20 seats to the BNP would be the least of our worries - after all, any lunatic with £500 to spare can stand as a parliamentary candidate. Even if I am being overly pessimistic, this country is presently in crisis and strong, decisive leadership is what is needed. I don't know if a Con-Lib government will provide that leadership but I believe it is the best of all the available options at the moment.

 

[vim_fuego]

They had better forge a deal PDQ as the worlds fianancial markets are about to go into melt-down as the Greek tragedy looks to be mirrored in Portugal and Ireland...A strong single party government might be able to act quickly enough to stop the rot...A coalition may just fanny around for too long to not stop us 'double dipping'...

 

[Jim_P_Pulfrew]

The meltdown has been averted (just) by the Eurozone bail out fund creation. The IMF and all the major banks have rubber stamped it so things should get easier.

I cannot believe that even the most inept greedy city banker will not have sat down weeks ago and factored in a hung parliament. My view is that the crisis is with the Euro and Greece, Spain, Portugal etc and any wavering market is purely down to that. It is Tory and Labour spin to the media that the markets are shaky in order to put pressure on negotiations.

The ConLib deal in my opinion will not be struck until Wednesday if at all. Electoral reform is just too big a bite of the sh!t sandwich for Tory backbenchers and Hague interestingly spoke about political reform rather than electoral yesterday. The Tories are used to governing alone and want to continue to. If they let PR in, John Major will be the last Tory ever to be a PM of an all Tory government.

I think that LibLab has effectively fallen at the first post. Brown will not step down at the behest of Clegg and the media are already striking the band up to the tune of this would be a government of losers. The meetings over the weekend at the FO are most probably leverage tools by the Lib Dems to force the pace with Cameron.

Cameron and Clegg would sign up right now if they didn't have to appease the 1922 commitee and the Federal Executive. It is these people that they have to seel the compromise to and both institutions are pretty unwavering at the moment.

My view (at this time)? Tory minority government formed with a non aggression pact between them and the LibDems for a fixed period of 12-18 months. In return a free vote in the commons on a referendum for electoral reform, kicking the inheritance tax scandal into the very long grass and a less volatile relationship with Europe.

They are playing it all very close and using Ashdown, Steele and Major as sounding boards to punt ideas to the media to see how they are being received.

Jimps