Uk Conscription

[M_for_Mother]

Don't panic! This is not a news headline!

Just got back from Norway where they have conscription for 17-19 yr olds. Their period of service lasts 12 months and, aside from Military Training, they cover the basics of DIY and other 'life skills'. Unfortunately they all have hairstyles akin to 'Busted' and their military looks like a Jamboree.

Any opinions on the pros/cons of a return to conscription in the UK?

 

[Plumber]

Why should the forces be forced into being a nanny for every yobo, lout and waste of space that society has to offer. Look at how effective conscripts are from every country that has them, and you realise that all the time and effort put into the idea is a complete waste of time and money.

Why should the RAF be a dumping ground because the jails are getting full.

 

[M_for_Mother]

Fair enough, but do you think that Military Training can offer young people valuable skills for their future? I believe that there are certain elements that kids would do well to take on board; responsibility, teamwork, discipline. I can go on.

Also, It never hurts to be shown how to wire a plug properly in the first place.

 

[Plumber]

So basically take away all responsibility from parents to bring their sprogs up properly, because someone else will pick up the pieces and turn their kids into acceptable members of the community at a later date. I still say its pouring valuable resources down the drain, and who's budget would the whole concept come out of.

 

[oldhamboy1967]

UK Conscription

UK Conscription

I agree with Plumber, I don't want to see the UK Services turned in to a solution for the ills of British society. I know it could be argued that we already are taking on waifs and strays but at least we are all volunteers and just arbitrarily drafting people just dilutes our professional ethos.

It's interesting that many European Armed Forces are moving to a 100% model and away from national service.

 

[rest have risen above me]

Not a complete waste of money

Not a complete waste of money

Conscription poses one rather tricky Moral question... Do you send itinerant yobbo who doesn't want to be a soldier to fight in Iraq?
It's all very well saying it teaches them life skills and discipline, but at the cost of someone's son caught by an insurgent bomb. I know we don't want to go either but we volunteered (no thanks back from Tony Bliar). Surely that would be against The Human rights rubbish we signed up to in europe.
It wouldn't bother me about my son (16) It'd save a fortune on my food bills the scrounging student that he is..lol...(His mum'd have a fit if she knew I'd said said that)

 

[Plumber]

I suppose its one way of dealing with the granny mugging hoodies roaming the streets falling from one pub to the next because they're all open for 24hrs now.

 

[Weebl]

Bad idea.

Hopefully HM Armed Forces are still seen as one of the best in the world, if not the best when comparing size for size (no sniggering at the back)

Adding 2 year conscripts into the mix would be a nightmare.

Who would train them in these 'life skills' Most of us are too busy trying to do our own jobs without teaching snotty nosed kids who don't want to be there how to wire a plug. The treasury would have a heart attack if you asked for money to train people who will only be able to give return of service for ~18 months (presuming a 6 month ish plug wiring course)

 

[Fablon biff chit]

Ah, the old favourite. I used to support it, but these are not the 50s/60s anymore!

As an all volunteer force, I think we are best off. As a smal force, we should be oversubscribed, and have harder basic training - but forcing oiks into the system would be a mistake IMO.

If the chavs on the street dont respect authority in schools and at home, a big nasty cpl shouting at them will not gain it!

 

[HotspurIDO]

If the chavs on the street dont respect authority in schools and at home, a big nasty cpl shouting at them will not gain it!

I'd have a bloody good go!

(Would only work if 'old school' methods were sanctioned however. Otherwise I fear it would be I on the wrong side of an ASBO!)

 

[Bluntend]

Er...

Er...

Shouldn't this be in the 'general chit chat forum'? Unless of course we're thinking of conscripting yobs into Flt and Sqn Cdr jobs.

 

[Standards]

I am not in favour of a two year conscription, I am in favour of some sort of national service. It would not have to be purely military, there are many things that could be opened up to provide people with some sort of responsibility towards their local community or a service to the country. The timescale could be 12 months and this could be done in blocks if need be. I think that it is time that younger people are exposed to how things in the country run.

Discipline the buggers!

Standards!

 

[M_for_Mother]

I was going to ask if spending 1 year/2 years in the ranks (during conscripted service) before Commissioning would benefit Junior Officers.

thoughts?

 

[wobbly]

I think that Standard's idea would be the only solution. The UK military is running on a shoe string budget and no way would the Government be able to fund training for Military National Service kids.

A community service period would in my mind be most beneficial. It would allow certain individuals to put something back into their community and allow some of the more 'dosser' types to stay off the dole and maybe learn that they can in fact contribute something to society.

 

[Plumber]

I was going to ask if spending 1 year/2 years in the ranks (during conscripted service) before Commissioning would benefit Junior Officers.

thoughts?

Apart from seeing how the whole thing works (covered during IOT I'd presume) I can't see what benefit it would have for anyone, commissioned or not. Lets face it being a conscrpit and being treated as such for 2 years would put most people off joining up properly. Why do you think you might have benefitted from it? (no digs a serious question).

 

[M_for_Mother]

Hmmm, not sure.

On one hand it would certainly be an advantage to know the very basics of the trade from the deep down and dirty level. And I suspect that the troops may be more inclined towards Officers if they knew that it was a natural progression thing rather than a result of a few years studying Media Lab Arts at Royal Holiday.

On the other hand, you don't get a whole lot of constructive work out of a trainee who only serves for 2 yrs, when training, leave, etc is considered.

firmly sat on the fence on this one.

 

[Bluntend]

I must admit, I'm strongly in favour of the community service idea.

The only way I can see the 'conscript' approach working would be for the 'conscripts' to have minders or mentors (rather than full time servicemen) to ensure they benefit from the facilities and experiences that a stint in the Forces can provide - the AT, a bit of travel, sport, etc all in a military theme, but perhaps away from the more dangerous aspects of military life. All the while, the 'conscripts' would be required to contribute something to the Forces. Now, whether this contribution would be in the provision of assistance in kitchens, works services, a 'SWO's gang' or whether it would be more physically and intelectually demanding, for example working on some of the hardware, depends on the individuals. The one key point though would be the cost and I cannot imagine the Defence Budget being able to sustain this kind of project.

There have been some interesting documentaries in recent years. Bad Boys Army was ok but there was an earlier programme where a handful of young offenders were given the option to reduce their punishment by spending 6 months with the Army (rather than 18 months in a young offenders institute). Some seemed to be affected by their experience in a really positive way, some were affected less positively and ellected to take the 18 months. Unfortunately, the programme failed to follow up on whether any of the individuals had managed to stay on the straight and narrow.

 

[Fablon biff chit]

Spending 2 years in a RAF environment is hardly hard training (which is surely better for the sense of acheivement)...

 

[DoesMyBumLookBigInThis?]

Israeli Air Force

Israeli Air Force

I spent time last year on an exercise with the Israeli Air Force and had some very interesting chats with some of their guys. One in particular had been brought up in South Africa and London but was conscripted back at 18 to serve his time in Israel. He completed his time and was 'released'. He then returned back into service commissioned (albeit a different branch) and I asked him why (by some strange twists of fate, he could have joined the RAF and continue living in the UK)?? His response was he felt honoured to serve his country (taking into account he was not brought up there) and was truely there to serve and protect etc etc this reponse was valid throughout the entire Sqn - he didn't see that kind of honour in the RAF. Ask someone why they joined the RAF - how many will respond with such respect and dignity?? Likely answer: pays not bad, reasonable job security when i joined/good pension.....
I do believe that some sort of discipline would be good in todays youth - in my day it was taught at school too: leather belt/cane/detentions that meant something...

Just a thought to ponder on over a coffee!

 

[The Controller]

Never did me no 'arm...

Never did me no 'arm...

It should be interesting to note (to some!) that National Service / Conscription did no harm to 2 other contributors to this forum....You Can Call Me AL and Hilston Pols! Both well-grounded...and VERY old.