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Thieving Fire Fighters

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Plumber

Flight Sergeant
1,152
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I don't remember the last time I heard a copper whinging about being expected to do his job in the face of adversity unlike the fully paid up commies in the FBU. If I had my way any member that went on strike would be up for dismissal, and if anyone should be hurt or die due to a fireman abandoning his post because he can't be arsed to get out of bed for 20-30 grand a year (+ whatever he makes on the side on all his time off) the responsibility and guilt should rest firmly on his shoulders.

So the poor lambs have mortgages and bills to pay, so do the majority of other people trying to scrape a living in this country, wake up and join the rest of us. Or simply don't buy houses you can't afford, that or trade in your luxury cars for something less ostentatious (or does your car need to reflect your ego).

A whole 4 years in the forces, nuff said there then [[I]B]smalley.[/B][/I]. :p
 
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Twonston Pickle

Guest
Trumpton Basher,

All good points and humourously stated. I do not disagree with you that Firemen (should that be Firepeople?) are certainly not the best paid, have the best working conditions or are not highly technical specialists. However, that is not the arguement here. The, very valid, point is that why should the Armed Forces cover such a strike. The firemen only feel they can strike and not risk being accused of endangering life is because we step in. We already spend a significant amount of time away from home (4-6 months every year for some) and covering many other tasks (JRR helping Met Police, Foot & Mouth etc). I personally resent the implication that we should just get on with it; we do not have a union and we are certainly not well paid. But when it comes to technical skills, you mention:

Amazingly, they found once they got on the fire Engines they were able to understand an whole host of technical information about the equipment had a full knowledge of Fire science, Urban Search & Rescue, First Aid, CBRN Counter Measures, Operational Procedures...etc...etc...

RAF Firefighters have these skills over and above their main duty without the pay, conditions, second job and union support that Firemen enjoy. Moreover, many areas mentioned are also the common core skills for all servicemen. We are certainly more adaptable than your average firemen; RAF Firefighters putting out fires in Basra in the middle of morter attacks and firefights, for example. While civvies are covered by H&S etc, we make do, adapt and overcome.

P.S. 4 Years!!!!? Get some time in - couldn't hack a real job?
 
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trumpton basher

Guest
Gentlemen,

I'll take all of your points. But again, you seem to be experts in my job. The one with I will not do here, depsite my very limited time in the Forces (What is the average service by the way? Probably not the 30 years that the vast majority do in the Fire Service) I understand a little, albeit somewhat dated about Military life BUT nothing at all about life in the RAF..

Now do you know what I do when this is the case? I don't offer any opinions on your chosen career the jobs you carry out or how you go about it. That is your area of expertise and you can rightly comment on it and inform those (like me on the outside) how your job works.

By the same token, your comment on how much more adaptable people in your game are than they are in mine. Walk a few miles in my shoes before you make those comments please my old friend. Because of these poxy disputes...you somehow amazingly see us as worse than just about everyone else on the planet.... is that rational thinking? Really...look away from the screen and think to yourself without having to admit it here and look soft in front of the lads.... are they really that bad?

I left school and joined the Navy I left the Navy early in the 80's and during the Falklands joined the Fire Brigade. I have worked for 23 years in the inner city. I have witnessed death and destruction numerous times and on four occassions have lost colleagues at Operational incidents. I have been abused and set upon by Gangs and unruly mobs on many occassions until I made a senior rank. I Have always payed my taxes, brought up two well behaved children, reppected the society and the country I live in. I have been involved in many charity events including a lot that we did when I first joined for the Falklands vets... maybe it was a bit of guilt on my part...but believe me I could have been there...choices eh?

I have led a fairly ordinary life, I have been in danger and even bim injured doing my job on several occasions. I did not get any medals, nor do I want them. I was just doing my job and if I get injured again tomorrow the same would apply.

I have no axe to grind with you...In fact I am very similar to most of you, maybe just a bit older and wiser. I am proud of the armed forces and feel very strongly when I see another young soldier killed in action...just like I do when I see a young Firefighter killed in action. All in all, I like most of my colleagues are just ordinary men and women doing a somewhat extraordinary job in less than perfect circumstances.... sound familiar gang?

Like I said, I lay the blame for the disputes at the start on the incompetence of my Union, but the whole thing was hijacked by the Government and press...we could have had a modest settlement that we would have agreed to, but it was taken away by the Government...the common enemy that are also decimating the british Armed forces.

I am sorry we went on strike, as Professionals this was not done easily. I am even more sorry that you all got dragged into it. Do you really think that was our point.

But what gives you the right to pour such irrational scorn and insults onto a basically decent and hard working group of people? I would believ that you actually hate Firefighters more than terrorists or criminals? Is that rational? Look in the mirror, ask the question?

And what about every other person who went on strike? The Nurses, the Ambulance Service? Teachers? Local Authority Workers? Maybe none of you were in the forces when the Ambo's went on strike in '89...if you were you were probably giving them the same treatment. Its also a good job you do not get drafted in to cover Nurses, Teachers and Dustmen when they have had industrial disputes.... no, that is fine...they can strike all they like because you will not be drafted in to look after the sick, educate snotty kids or clean the streets.

It is clear that you have your hardened opinions and I will not waste my time trying to argue any further with you...more fool you for being so bigoted you cannot or will not look at all sides of the story and accept that many good ex military people, some of whom covered the '77 strike are or were now Firefighters who went on strike in the recnet dispute. That you never know, you may leave the RAF and like many others decide to try for the Fire Service and may find yoursleves in a dispute in the future.

As a closing point, one of you spoke of how you talked to a senior Fire officer during the strike. Here is an amazing fact; Most of the snotty ar$e licking Senior Officers who were involved in this and who left the FBU are very typical....an average profile would be.... stayed on at 6th form in secondary modern, worked in the city for a couple of years, joined the Fire Brigade becuase he felt like it...spent as little time as possible in an operational post before going into various non op departments gaining promotion through who he knew and not what he knew.... stepping over everyone he could to get where he was...a typical shameless Mummy's boy.

As soon as the heat was on...they got out and then stood there during Op Fresco feeding you their ****e! Those of us like me...have a bit of an idea of respect, tradition, History, Loyalty...funny enough most ex military Firemen also fall into this category...they are the ones who when the heat was on...despite how it made us feel stood by what we believed in. Officers lik eme who I admit don't do too badly...stood right there alonside my men becuase they stand alongside me and don't question what I ask of them in some inner City Back Street at three in the Morning.

OK, so there maybe some more localised Industrial action.... This is primarily in defence of loss of Applainces on night duties when the more serious incidents happen (despite what HMG and your Brass feed you). This is being carried out by proposing shift changes.... it will be very easy now for this dispute to be sold as a 'Firemen Striking For Beds/Cosy Shifts' issue. I Have been quite open here with you...you can believe me or not...or you can believe the sh1t the system and the press feed you.

I am my own man, reasonably intellegent and able to make my own decisions based on all the information I come across in my everyday life. Like I hear and read a lot about squaddies and domestic violence, drunken squaddies fightiong and brawling in Military Towns, Squaddies raping women in Holiday destinations, Sqauddies thes, Squaddies that. But you know what, I Have the brains to decipher the wheat from the chaff and draw my own conclusions that the British Military are still among the finest in the World despite constant cut backs and being continually 'used' by the Government. No doubt there are a few bad apples but you are quite a decent group.

Now....do you have the Brains to be objective? Or are you going to continue to listen to listen to every bit of crap fed to you? I have gibven you some insight... if you come back with the same ill researched bogotted replies...then god help us all!!!!
 
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trumpton basher

Guest
SirSaltyHelmet said:
Well....

You can tell he wasnt in the Navy long, its almost legible! :D :D :D


Its taken a long time...and I had to get may Daughter to help me but yes....its amazing what can be acheived. ;)

Admin, please delete my account now and release me from this hell.... I can't help but fear I will have to keep coming back to get my Balls broken every few hours because I have nothing better to do with my time.
 
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M_for_Mother

Guest
'As soon as the heat was on...they got out and then stood there during Op Fresco feeding you their ****e! Those of us like me...have a bit of an idea of respect, tradition, History, Loyalty...funny enough most ex military Firemen also fall into this category...they are the ones who when the heat was on...despite how it made us feel stood by what we believed in. Officers lik eme who I admit don't do too badly...stood right there alonside my men becuase they stand alongside me and don't question what I ask of them in some inner City Back Street at three in the Morning.' (Trumpton_Basher)



So, Trumpton, you're a war-dodging, work-avoiding commie?

You need to understand that the vast majority of the guys on here don't think Firemen are kn0bs as individuals. They think think you're kn0bs as a whole!

RAF guys aren't biggots or fools, they lay their lives on the line just as often as you and when we loose someone in the Service it is a sad occasion, but we know that it is the risk inherent in what we do.

What we do have a problem with is one of our guys dying on OP FRESCO because of poor training and equipment, or a civilian dying because the 'professional' Fire Fighters they rely on decided to strike over their (not unreasonable) conditions.

Why can't you just accept that you're a bunch of moaning girl-pants, and need to modernise and get some sac?

MFM
 
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trumpton basher

Guest
OK then Big Fella....

I'll bow to your obvious superiority and stick around and let you all have a good time letting off some steam and kick the 'Cybersh1t' out of me.


I don't remember the last time I heard a copper whinging about being expected to do his job in the face of adversity unlike the fully paid up commies in the FBU
Blimey Plumber...you don't know many Coppers then do you? :D Obviously my troops interact with them fairly frequently and I do at Borough level on all the various comitees and groups we sit on. The last I heard from them...and my neighbour's; a Husband and Wife both in the MET was; "The job's fcuked"...sound pretty similar to what is coming out of Firemens mouths and any of you lot who have done a bit of time I daresay.

So the poor lambs have mortgages and bills to pay, so do the majority of other people trying to scrape a living in this country, wake up and join the rest of us. Or simply don't buy houses you can't afford, that or trade in your luxury cars for something less ostentatious (or does your car need to reflect your ego).
Good old Plumber...he likes a laugh.... I forgot I don't like in the real world do I? I live on that special Gov't funded luxury Firemen only Housing development. No, I don't live in a normal suburban street where my neighbours include...A School Caretaker, A Nurse, A Builder, A Lorry Driver, A retired couple, an Electrician, a Taxi Driver, a City Insurance Company manager...etc...etc...

All with Mortgages just like mine, all with the same hopes and fears as me, all with an average 2.4 Children and average Family car. Between us all we have had good and bad times.... The Lorry Driver has spent time on a Picket line as has the Nurse and the School Caretaker. The Taxi Driver likes to moan about the amount of Minicabs nicking work off of them and how 'The Games Dead'

A few of the others who work for the Private sector such as the Insurance man and the Sparks have the advantage of an open market...they get fed up with their lot...there are plenty of other companies in the same business they can hop between. The Builder is self employed so he makes his own luck.

Yep, the real world, that's where I live not in cloud fcuking cuckoo land!!!!! A world where you are on your own and its up to you and you alone to make sure that the roof stays over your head and your kids get fed and clothed.
 

Plumber

Flight Sergeant
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OK I'll get off my soap box for a while.


(What is the average service by the way? Probably not the 30 years that the vast majority do in the Fire Service)
Anything from 16 to 37 years tends to be the norm for officers and erks alike.

I don't think firefighters are worse than crims or terrorists, and I'm sorry I was so vitriolic in my other posts. My gripe is the fact that we are being lumped with yet another responsibility when we are finding it difficult to cope with the ones we already have on our plate. We are under funded under appreciated and over used by those in power (sound similar). I agree you have the right to fight for better conditions and your union made you look bad in the last dispute, its just the timing sucks and when does it stop. For as long as we are able to cover your jobs (not as effectively I admit) what is going to stop you walking out whenever you feel like it, knowing fine well the armed forces will cover your backs.

As a closing point, one of you spoke of how you talked to a senior Fire officer during the strike. Here is an amazing fact; Most of the snotty ar$e licking Senior Officers who were involved in this and who left the FBU are very typical....an average profile would be.... stayed on at 6th form in secondary modern, worked in the city for a couple of years, joined the Fire Brigade becuase he felt like it...spent as little time as possible in an operational post before going into various non op departments gaining promotion through who he knew and not what he knew.... stepping over everyone he could to get where he was...a typical shameless Mummy's boy.

A typical stereotype of all officers ;) , though undeserved by most (except for the ones I've met that are in the Army) :p .

As for my opinions they may be firm, as getting older and wiser enables you to confirm these through experience, but they are by no means set in stone and are subject to light tweeking on a regular basis.

Nothing I said earlier was aimed at an individual, just the situation as a whole.
 
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trumpton basher

Guest
Plumber said:
OK I'll get off my soap box for a while.


(What is the average service by the way? Probably not the 30 years that the vast majority do in the Fire Service)
Anything from 16 to 37 years tends to be the norm for officers and erks alike.

I don't think firefighters are worse than crims or terrorists, and I'm sorry I was so vitriolic in my other posts. My gripe is the fact that we are being lumped with yet another responsibility when we are finding it difficult to cope with the ones we already have on our plate. We are under funded under appreciated and over used by those in power (sound similar). I agree you have the right to fight for better conditions and your union made you look bad in the last dispute, its just the timing sucks and when does it stop. For as long as we are able to cover your jobs (not as effectively I admit) what is going to stop you walking out whenever you feel like it, knowing fine well the armed forces will cover your backs.

As a closing point, one of you spoke of how you talked to a senior Fire officer during the strike. Here is an amazing fact; Most of the snotty ar$e licking Senior Officers who were involved in this and who left the FBU are very typical....an average profile would be.... stayed on at 6th form in secondary modern, worked in the city for a couple of years, joined the Fire Brigade becuase he felt like it...spent as little time as possible in an operational post before going into various non op departments gaining promotion through who he knew and not what he knew.... stepping over everyone he could to get where he was...a typical shameless Mummy's boy.

A typical stereotype of all officers ;) , though undeserved by most (except for the ones I've met that are in the Army) :p .

As for my opinions they may be firm, as getting older and wiser enables you to confirm these through experience, but they are by no means set in stone and are subject to light tweeking on a regular basis.

Nothing I said earlier was aimed at an individual, just the situation as a whole.


And I too will wind my neck in a little. What really fcuks me off is the fact that we end up arguing on here over ****e like this that should never happen.

Nothing worries us more than the fear that someone will get killed during OP Fresco... public or Military. The fact the the Gulf war was on the Horizon sent a very srtong message to the Pinko's at the head of the Union that we don't want to play anymore.

Like I said, there are plenty of us who are ex-forces...and still one or two who covered the '77 strike. I don't know what the answer is. I know most people after the last strike were felling very low, many have left, most have considered it.

But when all around you is fast slipping down the bog and unlike the Police who only have to rattle their sabres to get a new deal we are going further down...what do you do? It is painted liek we were gagging for a strike...the fact is, we were told that Gilchrist was talking to Prescott.... but we needed a Strike vote to 'show our depth of feeling' that came out at 87%...and all of a sudden we were out of the door.

If the Military were not being used to cover the Strikes...whay wouyld your opinion be then?
 

sausage2

Decorated war hero
Administrator
1000+ Posts
2,761
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Fair play trumptom, a well reasoned argument there. I think you'll find that most people in the RAF don't really give a $hit why you're striking, the fact of the matter is that we are going to be involved in doing your job, whilst the strike is on.

This leads us to a reduction in manpower, causing an overstreched airforce to be streched even further. Surely you can see that there is bound to be resentment towards your ilk , it is because of your actions that we will be forced to do a job that none of us want to do.

how would you or any fireman feel if we went on strike, and you lot had to go to Basra, with 4 days training.

Pehaps you would resent us, and not support our case, because of the position we had put you in? I suggest that would be the case

So whilst you may have your valid reasons for striking, i couldn't give a to$$ what the reason is, All that bothers me is that I am directly involved in your dispute. So If you've come here to give us your side of the story thanks very much, but please don't exect any sympathy here.
 
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trumpton basher

Guest
Sausage,
I can say hand on heart that I'd do the best I could with what little training and equipment I had and I would genuinely wish you all the best for a quick resolution as long as your claim was justified.

THat is the way me and a lot of my Muckers are...no Bullsh1t. I am appalled at your lack of equipment and support from what I read of the conflict in the Gulf. I don't fancy any time in a war zone but I can say hand on heart if I were called to do it I would go. As an aside, any cr@p that happens on the streets of the UK that no one else wants to deal with....spillages, floodings, people locked out, unanswered burglar alarms... an endless list fo non fire service calls...we go and deal with them... not entirely different to what you have said. No one else can or will do it....give it to the Firemen?

There are reservists in the Fire Service and Ambulance Service who are called back to do time...I know an Paramedic who as we speak is in Afghanistan and at my last Staion one of my lads was on the verge of a recall. I'm sorry you don't give a fcuk...maybe one day you will leave the Military and join the Fire Service...if the conditions are still bearable...then you can be glad that I and my contempoaries gave a fcuk.... if we all took the 'doesn't affect me so why should I care attitude' then the Country will go even further down the drain.
 

Plumber

Flight Sergeant
1,152
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As an aside, any cr@p that happens on the streets of the UK that no one else wants to deal with....spillages, floodings, people locked out, unanswered burglar alarms... an endless list fo non fire service calls...we go and deal with them... not entirely different to what you have said. No one else can or will do it....give it to the Firemen?

And when they start to get uppity, don't worry as we have the other all purpose all circumstances tool the armed forces to cover it.

As for not caring, I do, hence my occasional (frequent) rants about most things ;) .

As for maintaining your equipment from an earlier post, does that include polishing your helmet? :D :D (sorry couldn't resist).
 
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trumpton basher

Guest
In Summary

In Summary

All in all, I fully understand and accept your grievances. It was only a couple of decisions made decades ago that landed me here where I am today.... the first was to leave the Navy, the second was to join the FB. If I hadn't have made those decisions then I may be sitting here now as a salty old Matlow bemoaning my lot compared to that of the Fire Service.

By the same token, any one of you (with exception to those of you who decided to join the RAF when you were very young) may have not bothered to apply when you did and maybe you...being the people that you are.... reasonably intellegent looking for a challenge and a worthwhile job may have joined the Fire Service and would have been having the argument from my side.

At the end of the day, as I have said, we are all doing difficult jobs in difficult circumstances. I will grant you that our conditions are better than yours, but by and large as an occupational group we are older and have to exist in the outside World. Compared to many in the public sector and almost everyone in the private sector, pound for pound, job for job, we are worse off. But it is still a worthwhile job and one that most of us still just about enjoy and are proud to do. Its a fact of life that we are quite intuitive and natural survivors and like lots of people...Nurses, Teachers, Postmen...we take on a second job...out of neccesity not choice.

My wish and the wishes of all but a few wnakers who are outright commy to$$ers is that we never have to go down that road again. Every vote to take industrial action weighs heavily on us...not least because we know that it is you poor fcukers with outdated equipment, lack of training and knowledge in the area of Fire And Recsue that will put your lives on the line. It is a dirty and dangerous job and it is only thanks to the skill and experience of those in the job that Firemen are not killed more often. We are all painfully aware that a Soldier/Sailor/Airman carrying out our role without this Training and experience is in danger of getting injured or worse.

Believe me, if that were to happen it would cut us as deeply as it would you.

But at the end of the day, we are all human...it is natural to defend what you hold dear by whatever means available. I have never broken the law or been in trouble with the Police, but at 6' and 17 Stone I would tear apart anyone who harmed one of my family...laws or no laws.

Yuu are doing exactly the same. You are defending what you hold dear...your are professional Airmen and not Firefighters. You will defend your rights to carry out your job. It is a given that you cannot withdraw your labour so the fact you are covering a group who does will naturally lead to resentment. But in my shoes...doing my job maybe you would. Like I said, there were few who scabbed the last Strike for whatever reason...none of those to my knowledge were former Servicemen. They were all there...Falklands Vets, Gulf war Vets, Balkans Vets.... they all withdrew their services...with heavy hearts...but withdrew them anyway.

My one wish is that the bean counters will leave the Fire Service alone, allowing us to get on with the generally good job we do in providing Fire & Rescue cover for the UK. Statistically were are among the busiest in the World with medicore equipment but still hold our own and some against the rest of the Wolrd. (Another similarity with the UK Armed Forces). Then we will be able to do our job and you will be able to do your job and our paths should never cross and we can avoid all these unneccessary p1ssing contests.

Please fell free to comment further and I will do my best to provide you with the real facts. But I am too long in the tooth to come up for languid abuse of my Profession.
 
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Bluntend

Guest
Trumpton Basher.

You claim to have no axe to grind with us and that you are similar in many ways to us – I’m sorry but, no, you’re not. You may well feel pride in the Forces, however, you are happy to offload your job onto us when the conditions you face get too tough. WE simply work harder and push on through. I would suggest that since you were in and out of the mob in a blink of an eye and that was some 20 odd years ago, you know very, very little about life for the average serving man and women.

Putting things into perspective, at present, with Operations around the world gathering pace, never before have the Forces been so over-stretched. LEAN, E2E and other manpower reducing ‘initiatives’ are forcing the average serviceman or woman to do the job of at least 4+ people jeopardising flight safety and putting additional strain our ability to carry out even the most basic day to day duties. The demise of most ‘blue-suit’ second line facilities means that most serving personnel are now at First Line, i.e. OOA or on Exercise somewhere around the world most of the time. The impact this has on domestic lives is profound with service men and women unable to see their families for vastly protracted periods of time, hence the PVR (not to mention the divorce) rate is growing at a shocking pace. Single personnel are in some cases sharing 36 man ‘transit’ rooms for periods in excess of 24 months because ‘adequate’ accommodation has yet to be built. Those who reside in permanent service accommodation regularly find it woefully inadequate. Unlike you, we do not have a Union. IMHO even if we were offered one, the idea of a British Servicemen going on strike goes against everything we stand for and is tantamount to desertion. So I say again, we are not similar in any way! If you think your conditions suck, please don't look to us for simpathy.

You try to“… lay the blame for the disputes at the start on the incompetence of my Union….” If you feel that your Union is incompetent, why not leave? Or would that mean that if you were to become a ‘scab’ you would not be able to rely on your colleagues coming to your aid if your life depended on it? Furthermore, as a Professional, if striking was so hard to do, did you vote in favour or against strike action?

Your apologies that the Forces got dragged into the whole dispute are somewhat hollow – who exactly do you think were going to have to pick up the job? Teachers? Dustbinmen? As with every previous strike, the FBU was well aware of what action the government would take. As in every case of civil unrest, national disaster, flood, blizzard etc etc the Forces would (and will continue to) be called in. Although increasing the workload of an already over-stretched Armed Force was not your primary goal, you evidently gave little regard to those of us who had to step in and do your job.

What remains contemptible is that you (the FBU) gave little regard to your Duty of Care to the British Public. The FBU were reluctant to furnish the Armed Forces with the same modern equipment that you take for granted, forcing us to rely on outdated and inadequate equipment. The blame for every injury, every death that occurred during the dispute lies well and truly at your door and yours alone. The Forces personnel involved will, as always, do their very best, nevertheless, the FBU’s decision to deny us even a fighting chance is unforgivable.

You are right, however, on one point: “…at the end of the day, we are all human…it is natural to defend what you hold dear by whatever means available”. My question to you is that if your family were harmed in a house fire during a FBU dispute, whom would you blame? Yourself?, Us? The FBU?



One final point. You say that “Those of us like me...have a bit of an idea of respect, tradition, History, Loyalty…”. You forgot to mention duty. :mad:
 

Tanktops

LAC
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trumpton basher said:
There are reservists in the Fire Service ... at my last Staion one of my lads was on the verge of a recall.

Could we use him as a Firefighter if there's a strike please?

You mentioned that the government was decimating the forces. It's not, even the Romans only chopped one in ten, the RAF is being chopped by 1 in 7!

I personally was at a meeting on the day the last redundancies were announced. All the talk was of more capable aircraft and network-enabled this-and-that, at which point a Sgt stood up and asked "Sir, all these enhanced capability aircraft - How good are they at manning a fire engine?"

Quite telling, and pretty ballsy too (given that it was a 1* briefing) ;)

p.s. While I don't agree with you (You have Huntingdon Fire Station and their "F Off" response when asked for help during the last strikes to thank for that), this forum is better because of your posts, thanks for sticking round despite the abuse.
 
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trumpton basher

Guest
Bluntend...there is nothing in that article I disagree with.... I open my eyes and look at the world around me and see that you are getting used and abused. I will happily concede as I already have on here that the Armed forces as a whole are badly treated...as are many in the civilian Public sector to a greater or lesser degree (and I don't specifically mean Firefighters).

You have picked through my posts and highlighted a few good points. (The ones you wanted to see in fact) Clearly we in the UKFS will be unable to please all of the people all of the time and quiet rightly you have a vaild and serious gripe with that. I accept that like I accept if the shoe was on the other foot the feeling would be mutual.

I am not going to get full agreement but I have been adult enough to come on here and having been around the block a few times and being secure in who I am and what I have done in my 46 years to take your justifiable criticism on the chin and also ride the blatant anger and abuse. I've got nothing to prove to anyone else in this life apart from those who rely on me. and I am not here recruiting for friends.

But I will answer some of your questions.

Yes, I did vote for Strike action based on the information that was fed to me at the time. Would I vote for Strike action again?..No Never.

I could have left the Union and sat there complaining about them or I could have signed myself up as an FBU rep to bring a more moderate view into the forum and try to change the commy politics that have p1ssed me off for years. I did the latter...I put my money where my mouth is and now find myself arguing with those inside the Union just a tad more than I do with the Management of the Brigade. I am glad to say that those of us who wanted a little more representation of our interests and a little less trotskyite Politics are having some success because most Firemen's politics are right of centre.


Fire Service Equipment. The FBU do not own anything apart from a couple of Buildings and some headed paper. The Equipment either belongs to the Government or increasingly nowadays Private Companies under the vast web of Public/Private Partnerships....and there I think you may find is the REAL reason that you did not get our most up to date equipment.

Lets look at this logically. Most of the Firefighters at that point did not give a toss what happened to the equipment and appliances morale was so low. If you took it and because of your anger at the end of it returned it in a less than perfect state...then that would have complicated things even further for the Government and Employers.... Believe this from the horses mouth: We were praying that they would allow you to come and take the gear...it would have been ideal for everyone including yourselves and the public. I guess like most things to do with the dispute...you were fed a line that the FBU wouldn't allow this or that...it had Fcuk all to do with the FBU mate and plenty to do with shareholders assetts not getting ruined and the ODPM not having to fork out for new gear when they could palm you off with a load of old AFS sh1te!!!!


You talk about 'Every Previous strike'...I think you are confusing us with Railway Workers...there was only ever one other National Strike. And you talk about other things such as Civil unrest, Disasters, floods, Blizzards etc....we'll see you there then...because ther is just about nothing left that we don't get called in to attend these days. Although having been to more than one or two Riots in London over the past 20 odd years...I have never seen the Military there (A shame in actual fact, becuase I'm sure it wouldn't stay a riot for very long if a Battalion of Soldiers turned up).

Yes, the blink of an eye about my dim and distant forces career...god if that seems like a blink of an eye to you young man imagine how short it seems now I have been doing my bit for all the years I have done...well done with the patronising comment...but I'm afraid it doesn't wash my old mate...which brings me nicely to duty. In fact my Military career began around the time you were born and ended around the time you went to nursery school. Can you remember back that far? I bet that seemed a little bit more than 'a blink of an eye to you'''that was your whole life at that point!!! :D

Apart from 8 days in my career when I will allow you a stick to whip me with, please don't lecture me on duty or my integrity. I have worked fcuking hard and have done my bit in 4 seperate decades now. Governments, fashions and even wars have come and gone in that time and I have stood there and never shirked from whatever situation faced me. This is not a place for me to blow smoke out of my ar$e but I can tell you I have done what I have had to do and there have been times when I was lucky to get home. Please...8 days in 23 years??? Forgive me, but I've been 'doing my bit' as long as you have been alive...please spare me the lectures on duty.

Finaly, the question about my family...if they had have been harmed or killed during the dispute...then I would have no one to blame but myself...what are you stupid, I knew exactly what I was getting in to and I would have had to live with myself if anything had gone wrong...just like you might have to live with yourself if you are driving along one night, just a little bit too fast as we all do sometimes and a kid ran out in front of you...there but for the grace of god go all of us.
 
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Bluntend

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You chose to join a Forum with your opening patronising, sarcastic thread accusing us of harbouring bigoted views and questioning whether we “...have the Brains to be objective?” We too are ‘reasonably intelligent’ and able to make decisions based on all the information that we come across in everyday life. Our opinions our neither bigoted nor ill-informed. You talk of walking a mile in your shoes – you forget that many of us have found ourselves in your shoes on more than one occasion. Our information about your working and pay conditions is based on either first hand experience, first hand testimonials or alternatively from the very Union you yourself belong to. If you have a grievance with our opinions, look to your own propaganda machine before coming on here and attacking us.

You question that if the Military were not being used to cover the strikes, what would our opinion be then? Well, IMHO, the very same – the Fire Service has a responsibility and a duty to the British public – a Duty of Care, the day you refuse to honour that duty is the day you lose any credibility. Given that we, alongside the Army and RN face the prospect of covering for you (for whatever reason), thus increasing further the unprecedented pressure we find ourselves under, please do not look to us for sympathy. If the relationship between the Armed Forces and the Fire Service has been in any way damaged, you have only yourself to blame. Sometimes the importance of the job outweighs the needs of the people who carry it out – surely today, on Armistice Day that message is clearer than ever.
 
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