TG9 / 12 Merger

[Part Time PFOM]

I know that this has been discussed in the past, however, as the new WO TG9 is taking part in a massive study into merging TG9 & 12.

What is the opinion of the people at the coal face?

Good idea or disaster waiting to happen?

Will we gain anything or loose too much?

This is not an excuse for spleen venting, just an honest interest in what the rest of the Trade feel.

 

[FOMz]

If its done correctly mate, everyone can be a winner. If they try and cut corners or start the trade willy waving competition for certain posts - then thats where it will start to die on its arse.

You only have to look at the creation of TG4 to see what can happen when things are done badly.

Interesting times ahead.

One point though - I believe the controlling cadre need to be taken out of both TG9 & 12 completely.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

...One point though - I believe the controlling cadre need to be taken out of both TG9 & 12 completely.

From a TG12 perspective I agree with this completely, the current pullthrough to WO/FS on the WC side is a clear indicator that they need to be removed and put in their own trade. With your experiment on DE controllers I am sure that you would all agree on this.

Leave managing trade personnel to personnel from that trade!

 

[What's the bloody point?]

Leave everything as it is on the manpower front. Merge the training as soon as possible and have FE courses whenever a TG9 goes to a TG12 (historic) post and vice cersa. In the short term this can be done by the Unit that is receiving the cross over until an established FE course is established. This would be not a million miles away from a Unit doing OJT for someone on Squadron Ops who has only ever worked in a Tower!

Of course there will be dinasours who believe the other trades to be the spawn of the devil but hopefully they would die out quickly!

Just get on with it quickly and get rid of the CAA wannabees as soon as possible!

 

[opsgeek]

Leave everything as it is on the manpower front. Merge the training as soon as possible and have FE courses whenever a TG9 goes to a TG12 (historic) post and vice cersa. In the short term this can be done by the Unit that is receiving the cross over until an established FE course is established. This would be not a million miles away from a Unit doing OJT for someone on Squadron Ops who has only ever worked in a Tower!

Of course there will be dinasours who believe the other trades to be the spawn of the devil but hopefully they would die out quickly!

Just get on with it quickly and get rid of the CAA wannabees as soon as possible!

Agreed, It's worked with TG12 cross overs at LATCC and SCATCC so why shouldn't it work the other way. Does anyone know of any FOA's doing the same at Boulmer/Scampton?

 

[What's the bloody point?]

Does anyone know of any FOA's doing the same at Boulmer/Scampton?

I wouldn't dirty my hands doing their work!! I would rather peel my gonads and soothe the pain with lemon juice!!!

 

[FOMz]

Off Topic

I would rather peel my gonads and soothe the pain with lemon juice!!!

I hear there are certain clubs in london that cater for that sort of thing.....

Allegedly......

Ahem.......

DT_Xtremez_09:

Off Topic

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

I wouldn't dirty my hands doing their work!! I would rather peel my gonads and soothe the pain with lemon juice!!!

Which is a real help to the debate!

 

[Stingray]

Sorry, but have to disagree, leave both seperate.
Just look at TG 4, so much diversity in that trade and imho merging 9 and 12 would create a bit of chaos. Unless, of course there is basic training and initial postings to radar sites/airfield radar, then specialisation into the more delicate work.
Anyway what do i know, I left TG12 many moons ago!!!
DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[R_Squared]

I'm not sure if there is anyone on the board that has actually gone across to the 'other side' to actually comment on how they felt about it.
If there is, it would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

I think the skill sets of both the ops support and controlling sides are going to be similar and probably compatible.
But ultimately, does it really matter if we do merge or not?
What are we likely to lose?
To my mind it doesn't matter one bit. Tomorrow I will still go to work and do my job as will everyone else in TG9 and 12, even if the name changes. Even if there is some re-structuring, our jobs will still be pretty much the same.

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

I'm not sure if there is anyone on the board that has actually gone across to the 'other side' to actually comment on how they felt about it.
If there is, it would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

Don't forget that TG12 sent people across to help with your manning balance at the time. I don't believe that any FOA/M types have been "across the divide" so to speak except to attend courses at the School of Air Battle Management.

I think the skill sets of both the ops support and controlling sides are going to be similar and probably compatible.

Agreed, there is some work to be done but there is some commonality in training and we can always go back to the old adage "a trained man can"!

But ultimately, does it really matter if we do merge or not?
What are we likely to lose?
To my mind it doesn't matter one bit. Tomorrow I will still go to work and do my job as will everyone else in TG9 and 12, even if the name changes. Even if there is some re-structuring, our jobs will still be pretty much the same.

In reality what IMHO will happen is an amalgamation of the trade group but keeping seperate trade titles within (think TG8 FFTR/RAFP/Regt). Maybe a single trade sponsor and management structure (we are already served by the same desk at ACOS Manning) would reduce numbers in the higher echelons (SO1/2 level).

At the coal face I can see little change for the troops, some pain at SNCO level if you come in our direction or vice-versa.

Bear in mind that what is going on at the moment is simply a fact finding study. AOBM may have his ideas but it has to be a workable solution that is good for both trades.

If anyone wants any realistic information on the Aerospace Systems trade (not SNCO WC, they are the scum of the earth!) then please contact me through here.

If anyone wants a trip to sunny Northumberland to see for yourselves then I am happy to host you.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

You wouldnt beleive how hard it is to bite my tongue

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

You wouldnt beleive how hard it is to bite my tongue

Off TopicI am perfectly willing to come out to your place but you already have 1 (if not 2 by now) of my types there!

This has all been done to death on numerous threads before, both in TG9 and 12 forums. I guess we will all have to wait until the team reports (and my spies say this has to be soon) to see what the future holds for us all.

For what it's worth, us old and bold will probably not see any benefits from it all.

 

[insideinfoman]

As a total outsider these days.......I believe through the grapevine that it is a done deal!

It will happen.....but what do I know?

DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[damage]

I think the merger needs to happen, both trades have some elements of commonality in what they do and how they do it. Also, Battlespace Management is a key part of how we will be delivering airpower, TG12 have really gripped it and TG9 needs to get on board with that or we will disappear from the forefront of ops. We need to give FOAs a decent career path as well, now that controlling has gone (unless they DE or commission) surely a trade merge will open up new opportunities?

 

[FOMz]

What they need to do is open up the FOO commisioning route more for TG9 (if you fancy it that is) rather than put up barriers and recruit direct off the street. So much experience is thrown away due to the short sightedness of the FOO branch. Been a WO's more than 8 years? up or out!!!!!!

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

What they need to do is open up the FOO commisioning route more for TG9 (if you fancy it that is) rather than put up barriers and recruit direct off the street. So much experience is thrown away due to the short sightedness of the FOO branch. Been a WO's more than 8 years? up or out!!!!!!

From the TG12 side of the fence this holds water too. We have some young WOs that will hold up promotion unless they go the commission route. One has recently and I think some others are holding out to see what happens to him in 18 months time.

To top it all off, there are TG12 SNCOs doing traditional ABM officer jobs. When AOBM visited the other day it was all about savings and the like. With a sgt being about £10k cheaper to employ than a Flt Lt then is it about time we smelt the coffee on this one?

For the TG9, do you really need an officer in the chain? AOBM also announced that in the near future all officers will be on Short Service with only the best being selected to enter the "command stream" and continue to greatness. With this in mind does it not make sense to recruit fewer into fewer branches and save a wad of cash whilst only getting the best?

 

[damage]

As far as the Ops side of the house is concerned, more SNCOs covering the posts held by first tourist FOOs is the way ahead. This would improve promotion and improve the service that aircrew get.

 

[FOMz]

How very true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

As far as the Ops side of the house is concerned, more SNCOs covering the posts held by first tourist FOOs is the way ahead. This would improve promotion and improve the service that aircrew get.

Write a letter to AOBM telling him that it is £10k cheaper to employ a Sgt than a FO/FL. Appealing to airship's budgets may be the way ahead in these austere times!