TG1 Retention again

[ady eflog]

Afternoon, what's the latest from the cleaner on the TG1 retention? i've heard 300% increase in techie pay and another FRI for OR4-9 for another 3 years service to try and get them out of the impending 40% hole in manpower by 2025.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Afternoon, what's the latest from the cleaner on the TG1 retention? i've heard 300% increase in techie pay and another FRI for OR4-9 for another 3 years service to try and get them out of the impending 40% hole in manpower by 2025.

300%.

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

Usual short sighted approach.

Instead of recruiting steadily with forethought and not looking at recruitment patterns of old and noticing things like the huge numbers that joined in the early 90s have all suddenly reached timex all at the same time. Sometime about now for those on LOS 32.

It it better to keep those old guys around blocking promotion fat dumb and happy rather than pushing them out of the door and getting some new blood? Whilst a drop in productivity is inevitable it can't keep going on this way. Even time expired reservists want to retire at some point.

Time for some panic recruiting?

 

[Gilbert]

I think most people have seen the presentation from the Engineering WOs conference by now?

That showed grim workforce numbers dropping from now until 2028. That with the letters from DCOM - Made Up New Title, states 2 submissions have been sent to the Treasury/MOD for them to look at. 1st probably the officer talk 'Gold Plated' solution and the 2nd probably a much less 'we know you will pick this one but at least we tried' solution.

I imagine the figures are a very closely guarded secret, I've heard all sorts of rumours from an increase in trade pay, FRIs for 3 years and FRIs spread out over 5 years.

Promised an answer before christmas leave, we will see I guess.

 

[ERT]

Usual short sighted approach.

Instead of recruiting steadily with forethought and not looking at recruitment patterns of old and noticing things like the huge numbers that joined in the early 90s have all suddenly reached timex all at the same time. Sometime about now for those on LOS 32.

It it better to keep those old guys around blocking promotion fat dumb and happy rather than pushing them out of the door and getting some new blood? Whilst a drop in productivity is inevitable it can't keep going on this way. Even time expired reservists want to retire at some point.

Time for some panic recruiting?

"Keep those old guys".... Naa, they've had enough. The figure of £30k bounced around wont really help, we need more people, be it FTRS or Contractors....£30k is £17,800 post tax, or an extra £485 a month. I don't need more money....

A good idea would be to put the £30k directly into your pension, you dont see the immediate rewards, you save on the tax, but..getting a straight answer on from the JPAC on a benefits of this are probably on par with retaining eng pers.

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

Having more FTRS doesn't fix the problem at all. Keeping old guys in higher ranks covering the mundane jobs takes valuable promotion slots. Where's the incentive to stay in if there's now where to go, even a shit job on promotion can be enough to retain skilled workers.

FTRS is a dead end. They retire too!!

 

[muttywhitedog]

I've heard that any spare money will be linked to current skills and deployability. If you are in a non-deployable role or havent spannered for 3+ years, you get paid the same as a steward, whereas if you are on the front line fixing stuff, your wage doubles.

(Lets see if he bites....)

 

[Downsizer]

I've heard that any spare money will be linked to current skills and deployability. If you are in a non-deployable role or havent spannered for 3+ years, you get paid the same as a steward, whereas if you are on the front line fixing stuff, your wage doubles.

(Lets see if he bites....)

You need better bait mate.

 

[Gilbert]

I've heard that any spare money will be linked to current skills and deployability. If you are in a non-deployable role or havent spannered for 3+ years, you get paid the same as a steward, whereas if you are on the front line fixing stuff, your wage doubles.

(Lets see if he bites....)

Imagine if this was true though, the 3rd/4th tourists at Cosford might think twice about hiding and the waiting times at the med centre would be slashed!

 

[ady eflog]

Usual short sighted approach.

Instead of recruiting steadily with forethought and not looking at recruitment patterns of old and noticing things like the huge numbers that joined in the early 90s have all suddenly reached timex all at the same time. Sometime about now for those on LOS 32.

It it better to keep those old guys around blocking promotion fat dumb and happy rather than pushing them out of the door and getting some new blood? Whilst a drop in productivity is inevitable it can't keep going on this way. Even time expired reservists want to retire at some point.

Time for some panic recruiting?

If you've seen the PowerPoints you will know that there isn't anyone left at the bottom!

 

[Spearmint]

You need better bait mate.

Not the first time he's twisted his tits about it on here....

 

[muttywhitedog]

(Lets see if he bites.

Not the first time he's twisted his tits about it on here....

I believe pilots start to lose flying pay when they have not flown for a set number of years. Why should teccy pay be any difference?

Stripping aside your obvious bias, is it fair that a TG1 who spends multiple years working in ACS/QCIT/H&S role alongside a steward/medic/clerk gets paid more for doing an identical job? You know as well as I do that there are TG1 personnel hanging around in the RAF who do not hold a Q annotation for any aircraft currently operational. Crowbarring them out of their comfy office 9-5 jobs and back to cold, wet, dangerous front line operations would probably solve your manning issue.

I am massively in favour of paying competence based pay to those who earn it for doing that competence. I'm not massively in favour of paying it to those who have spent decades not doing what they were trained for.

 

[unruly1986]

I believe pilots start to lose flying pay when they have not flown for a set number of years. Why should teccy pay be any difference?

Stripping aside your obvious bias, is it fair that a TG1 who spends multiple years working in ACS/QCIT/H&S role alongside a steward/medic/clerk gets paid more for doing an identical job? You know as well as I do that there are TG1 personnel hanging around in the RAF who do not hold a Q annotation for any aircraft currently operational. Crowbarring them out of their comfy office 9-5 jobs and back to cold, wet, dangerous front line operations would probably solve your manning issue.

I am massively in favour of paying competence based pay to those who earn it for doing that competence. I'm not massively in favour of paying it to those who have spent decades not doing what they were trained for.

In the modern RAF, without QCIT/H&S there is no engineering.

 

[SausageFingers]

Afternoon, what's the latest from the cleaner on the TG1 retention? i've heard 300% increase in techie pay and another FRI for OR4-9 for another 3 years service to try and get them out of the impending 40% hole in manpower by 2025.

Is it possible they are holding out until after the Autumn statement on Wednesday?

We've had another 3 PVRs this week, all from the 'Cpl-Sgt 10-18 years service' range.

 

[unruly1986]

I think most people have seen the presentation from the Engineering WOs conference by now?

That showed grim workforce numbers dropping from now until 2028. That with the letters from DCOM - Made Up New Title, states 2 submissions have been sent to the Treasury/MOD for them to look at. 1st probably the officer talk 'Gold Plated' solution and the 2nd probably a much less 'we know you will pick this one but at least we tried' solution.

I imagine the figures are a very closely guarded secret, I've heard all sorts of rumours from an increase in trade pay, FRIs for 3 years and FRIs spread out over 5 years.

Promised an answer before christmas leave, we will see I guess.

Is the presentation available anywhere?

What are ET rates currently?

 

[Light Blue Warrior]

I believe pilots start to lose flying pay when they have not flown for a set number of years. Why should teccy pay be any difference?

Stripping aside your obvious bias, is it fair that a TG1 who spends multiple years working in ACS/QCIT/H&S role alongside a steward/medic/clerk gets paid more for doing an identical job? You know as well as I do that there are TG1 personnel hanging around in the RAF who do not hold a Q annotation for any aircraft currently operational. Crowbarring them out of their comfy office 9-5 jobs and back to cold, wet, dangerous front line operations would probably solve your manning issue.

I am massively in favour of paying competence based pay to those who earn it for doing that competence. I'm not massively in favour of paying it to those who have spent decades not doing what they were trained for.

There's a load of bollox if ever there was a load of bollox. Did a techy bang your Mrs one dinner time while you shut up shop polishing your backside?

Here's a money saving scheme for you, reduce the pay of your HR admin types back to a level that that fits to the job they do which is pretty much the square root of cock all.

A 50% pay cut should be about right.

 

[Spearmint]

I believe pilots start to lose flying pay when they have not flown for a set number of years. Why should teccy pay be any difference?

Stripping aside your obvious bias, is it fair that a TG1 who spends multiple years working in ACS/QCIT/H&S role alongside a steward/medic/clerk gets paid more for doing an identical job? You know as well as I do that there are TG1 personnel hanging around in the RAF who do not hold a Q annotation for any aircraft currently operational. Crowbarring them out of their comfy office 9-5 jobs and back to cold, wet, dangerous front line operations would probably solve your manning issue.

I am massively in favour of paying competence based pay to those who earn it for doing that competence. I'm not massively in favour of paying it to those who have spent decades not doing what they were trained for.

Techies are paid for what they know, not what they do.

Out of my 22 years, I had about 18 months in 3 separate 'back office' roles.

1) QCIT as the Unit Tool Controller but was still on standby for Afghan with a Tonka Sqn and no protection from DWR.

2) Docs Cell - only put in there to get a Mech SNCO out on the shop floor, and to (WO's words not mine) force the other NCO's who were reticent in gaining the extra auths to do so. I would put the overalls back on when it came time to auth them as I was competent in everything and would train & assess.

3) CAMO - Staff work essentially but so important to Aviation Safety and ensuring compliance from all in an MRP 145 environment.

All that I knew that could be 'accused' of swinging the lead (there probably are others that genuinely were doing that) whilst safe in a warm office were still prepared to bolster the relevant manpower roster.

Jobs like the above (apart from docs cells as they were about prior) have only come about in the aftermath of XV230 and Haddon-Cave in an environment were there needs to be competent fingers on the pulse to remind those holding the safety delegations / responsibilities of their remit.

 

[Gilbert]

Is the presentation available anywhere?

What are ET rates currently?

I believe it was sent to all attendees and engineering WOs by the EPAT guys, it's slowly filtered its way down through our workplace.

The 2 letters to Engineers from the Deputy CAS are on the EPAT page, or also in the presentation.

 

[ERT]

I believe it was sent to all attendees and engineering WOs by the EPAT guys, it's slowly filtered its way down through our workplace.

The 2 letters to Engineers from the Deputy CAS are on the EPAT page, or also in the presentation.

Is this the one where every TG1 FS becomes WO2? Every Chief moves up, and Chief rank is written off. The rest of the trades gain WO2 (i.e. OR8)?

 

[Gilbert]

Is this the one where every TG1 FS becomes WO2? Every Chief moves up, and Chief rank is written off. The rest of the trades gain WO2 (i.e. OR8)?

Yup, doesn't really change anything I think. TMs/Rects become FS, FS Shift becomes WO2 and WO1 is the Sqn WO.

New FS is paid the current Chf Tech Pay scales, WO2 is paid the current FS pay scales and WO1 is still the same.

Stay in guys! You'll get promoted! But get no extra pay....

Had the uniform roadshow guys visit the other day as well, the civvy consultants genuinely pitched Engineering Trade related Stable Belts for Eng/Trade identity.

Swiftly told to do one by everyone in the room, the blue suiters with them said they were told the same at other units visited too.