TG1 goodbye Chf Tech

[walkingmadman]

The RAF inline with the move to professions is currently reviewing a proposal to remove the rank of CT for TG1. The new proposed rank structure for TG 1, 5 and 13 will be - Sgt, FS, WO2 and WO1.

This proposal is looking to bring the engineering profession more in line with other RAF Professions, Army/Royal Navy and NATO allies.

The gripes that alot of TG1 SNCO's have had is that they have to go through an extra rank in the progression to WO (CT and FS) which is seen as being unfair.

Other professions will progress from OR7 to OR9 potentially after 3yrs and receive a nice approx £10k pay rise while engineers will go to the OR8 receiving approx £3k pay rise if achieved in 3yrs.

Do you think the removal of Chf Tech is the way forward? Any better proposals?

 

[SausageFingers]

I think it's a good way forward to make it 'fair' for pay and ranking purposes, especially for folk in mixed trade roles - incentive for promotion and perhaps opportunities for acting rank in these roles would be fairer for example.

Perhaps the only other way to do it would be to retain CT and have the rank as a 'skills marker' applied on time and completion of some senior technical course or something, aka Senior and experienced Sgt.

 

[Talk Wrench]

I think it's a good way forward to make it 'fair' for pay and ranking purposes, especially for folk in mixed trade roles - incentive for promotion and perhaps opportunities for acting rank in these roles would be fairer for example.

Perhaps the only other way to do it would be to retain CT and have the rank as a 'skills marker' applied on time and completion of some senior technical course or something, aka Senior and experienced Sgt.

There's no need to bin off the C/T rank. It should remain as the technical equivalent of F/S with both holding the same pay structures and responsibilities according to their professional environments.

Let's face reality though. This is all about equalising the rank structures ready for an Army takeover.

 

[ERT]

The RAF inline with the move to professions is currently reviewing a proposal to remove the rank of CT for TG1. The new proposed rank structure for TG 1, 5 and 13 will be - Sgt, FS, WO2 and WO1.

This proposal is looking to bring the engineering profession more in line with other RAF Professions, Army/Royal Navy and NATO allies.

The gripes that alot of TG1 SNCO's have had is that they have to go through an extra rank in the progression to WO (CT and FS) which is seen as being unfair.

Other professions will progress from OR7 to OR9 potentially after 3yrs and receive a nice approx £10k pay rise while engineers will go to the OR8 receiving approx £3k pay rise if achieved in 3yrs.

Do you think the removal of Chf Tech is the way forward? Any better proposals?

It's just a rank badge change, no other differences..

Chief = FS (OR7)
FS = WO2 (OR8)
WO = WO1 (OR9)

Promotion would be Sgt - Flt Sgt - WO2 - WO1.

Everyone else Sgt - Flt Sgt - WO1.

TG1 are Supp 3.
Engineers get Techie Pay.

If you run the maths, TG1 probably get more

 

[busby1971]

Techies get Techie pay, Engineers are officers.

just add a little lol here

 

[muttywhitedog]

Dont most trades in the Army & Navy have WO2 and WO1? I do remember that the CPOs on the Harrier Sqn I was on didnt much care for being treated as something between a Sgt and a Chf Tech, didnt routinely fill the prime TM & Rects Controller jobs unless they were covering for a Chf Tech on leave, and never covered for the FS.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Dont most trades in the Army & Navy have WO2 and WO1? I do remember that the CPOs on the Harrier Sqn I was on didnt much care for being treated as something between a Sgt and a Chf Tech, didnt routinely fill the prime TM & Rects Controller jobs unless they were covering for a Chf Tech on leave, and never covered for the FS.

Perhaps that's because even a low grade Corporal had more technical knowledge than a supposedly experienced, average CPO.

 

[4everAD]

The RAF has turned into the 'Keep TG1 sweet' brigade sod the rest. Give them Supp 3 pay, tech pay, and now give them OR8 on top of a £30,000 FRI! So rather than the RAF as a whole not liking the whole OR7/OR8 thing in the tri-service arena, it'll just be the forgotten professions wholl be left bitter and twisted and feeling massively undervalued compared to TG1. Time to introduce 0R3 and OR8 into the whole RAF and be done with it. One force my arse, rant over!

 

[walkingmadman]

The RAF has turned into the 'Keep TG1 sweet' brigade sod the rest. Give them Supp 3 pay, tech pay, and now give them OR8. So rather than the RAF as a whole not liking the whole OR7/OR8 thing in the tri-service arena, it'll just be the forgotten professions wholl be left bitter and twisted and feeling massively undervalued. Time to introduce 0R3 and OR8 into the whole RAF and be done with it. One force my arse, rant over!

It's not that they want to keep TG1 sweet it's that they need to. If they don't then the forecast as it stands is that TG1 will be at less than 50% staffed by 2028. The same situation is arising now for TG5 and TG13. It won't be long before an FRI for TG5 comes out as they are soon to be in a similar position.

This boils down the RAF undervaluing the engineering professions some would say. I think there are a number of factors to blame and all have come together making it almost impossible for the RAF to retain it's engineers.

 

[Dougtheplug]

Techies get Techie pay, Engineers are officers.

just add a little lol here

I can’t put it into words how much I think you are living rent free in your own head!!.

 

[Dazzy26]

The RAF has turned into the 'Keep TG1 sweet' brigade sod the rest. Give them Supp 3 pay, tech pay, and now give them OR8 on top of a £30,000 FRI! So rather than the RAF as a whole not liking the whole OR7/OR8 thing in the tri-service arena, it'll just be the forgotten professions wholl be left bitter and twisted and feeling massively undervalued compared to TG1. Time to introduce 0R3 and OR8 into the whole RAF and be done with it. One force my arse, rant over!

Or maybe TG1 have spoken to their personnel and asked them what they feel is needed to improve the profession and yes, might improve retention.

Who knows, if the proposal is accepted and successful that it's not rolled out across the RAF?

 

[SausageFingers]

The RAF has turned into the 'Keep TG1 sweet' brigade sod the rest. Give them Supp 3 pay, tech pay, and now give them OR8 on top of a £30,000 FRI! So rather than the RAF as a whole not liking the whole OR7/OR8 thing in the tri-service arena, it'll just be the forgotten professions wholl be left bitter and twisted and feeling massively undervalued compared to TG1. Time to introduce 0R3 and OR8 into the whole RAF and be done with it. One force my arse, rant over!

When techies are working in some locations on a daily basis, with civilian organizations that pay 2.5 times the amount for exactly the same job, the same place and the same standards it tends to rub salt in the wound that the professional value of the skills and knowledge that 'just techies' have is overlooked and taken for granted.

If the RAF wants to retain skills and experience, then the offer needs to compete strongly, and this means money. Logistics chains, HR, and chefs do not get paid the same as skilled engineers and technicians in other organizations, because the lever of responsibility just isn't comparable. This isn't arrogance either, it's just fact.

 

[Barch]

Nearly 50 years ago people were talking about binning the interim ranks of JT and CT and having JT moving to Lance Corporals and Chiefs moving to Flight Sergeant and the current FS moving to WO2.

Not a difficult concept and would bring the techies into line with the rest of NATO ORs.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Nearly 50 years ago people were talking about binning the interim ranks of JT and CT and having JT moving to Lance Corporals and Chiefs moving to Flight Sergeant and the current FS moving to WO2.

Not a difficult concept and would bring the techies into line with the rest of NATO ORs.

Don't forget that they erased Junior Technician and look where that lead...

....chinnnnggggg...the Colgate ring of confidence!

Well, we did tell them!

 

[Dan_Brown]

All i am hearing from CAS and the SLT is that money isn't the issue. Er...........yes it is, alongside many other things wrong with the RAF. We should be compensated the same as our civilian counterparts and if not more as we are separated from our families for extended periods of time, plus usually in the arse end of nowhere.

However, on the flip side, there are those who don't know how lucky they have it and are milking the system for it's worth. The stuff some are pulling in the military, they would be out on their ear in the real world.

No longer is it "what can i do for the RAF, but what can the RAF do for me" attitude (sometimes not a bad thing!)

 

[baconandeggs]

I don't see what fiddling about with ranks will achieve, what problem is it trying to solve?

 

[Talk Wrench]

I don't see what fiddling about with ranks will achieve, what problem is it trying to solve?

It'll do nothing apart from satisfying the whim of some RAF hating Army Brigadier hiding somewhere amongst the civil service.

 

[Forestfan]

I don't see what fiddling about with ranks will achieve, what problem is it trying to solve?

According to EPAT (old=Trade Sponsors) it's to cut out those occasions where a FS gets outgunned by a RN or Army WO2 when operating in similar roles in the joint environment, i.e JHC, F-35, and for clear parity when working with NATO forces.

Not worked in those areas so can't comment about outgunning happening, but the other question is what about the other trades then? Jointery isn't Eng exclusive.

EPAT've been looking to do this for years now.

 

[Spearmint]

According to EPAT (old=Trade Sponsors) it's to cut out those occasions where a FS gets outgunned by a RN or Army WO2 when operating in similar roles in the joint environment, i.e JHC, F-35, and for clear parity when working with NATO forces.

Not worked in those areas so can't comment about outgunning happening, but the other question is what about the other trades then? Jointery isn't Eng exclusive.

EPAT've been looking to do this for years now.

I've worked in such areas and know of a FS or two that used to get really wound up by a certain Navy CPO (knocking on the door for WO) who had only been in half the amount of time, yet was always ready to remind them of the pecking order.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

The RAF has turned into the 'Keep TG1 sweet' brigade sod the rest. Give them Supp 3 pay, tech pay, and now give them OR8 on top of a £30,000 FRI! So rather than the RAF as a whole not liking the whole OR7/OR8 thing in the tri-service arena, it'll just be the forgotten professions wholl be left bitter and twisted and feeling massively undervalued compared to TG1. Time to introduce 0R3 and OR8 into the whole RAF and be done with it. One force my arse, rant over!

Good to see the RAF still loves a TLA.