Should we trust the training of phase 1 recruits to SACs

[Mag2grid]

Interesting idea but if they can't get enough volunteers now how would they get went to increase manpower to cover both shifts?.

The move to Cranwell will probably help given the large amount of people in RAF Lincolnshire already. Gets rid of the hurdle of moving. Would make it more appealing to me anyway and I don't live there.

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SAC FTRS posts would be my bet!

 

[busby1971]

SAC FTRS posts would be my bet!

That would be my biggest nightmare, FTRS should only be used in the support of the reserves.

If you need to be full time in uniform you should be a regular, if you need to be on stand by to augment the regulars, you should be a PTRS.

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[Flumpdaddy]

I don't think FTRS would be the best solution for instructors, not enough current knowledge in how things are in the wider air force to pass on to recruits.

Best use of them is to fill with no deployable liability and where continuity is necessary.

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[techie_tubby]

As a phase 1 instructor do you need the wider knowledge? Halton is there to turn recruits from Civies to trainees ready for phase 2. I see no reason why FTRS can't teach GSK, Square bash and teach how to look after uniform.


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[Dan_Brown]

I think we need to be careful with FTRS - great for those who can get these slots, but what about those still serving?

I see new FTRS slots appearing all the time which means regular slots been taken away.

The cause and effect being the regulars could just become a constant deployable force while FTRS pick up home commitments.

A full section of my trade at a Lincs Unit has gone FTRS, they are already advertising for a specialist team at another. Like i say, each FTRS post takes away a regular slot. Be careful what we wish for.

 

[busby1971]

As DB says above, FTRS are a boon for the unit that has them, cheaper, no deployments and very little chance of having to deal with people being posted. However, the rest of the RAF have to pick up the slack, okay when there's a period of quietness less so when things get busy.

Saying that all FTRS have an underlying PTRS contract so do have some call up liability, theoretically meaning they could still do DWRs.

A glass back could have a bigger impact when your contract renewal is every 2 years.


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[Mag2grid]

If I recall half of the Boarding Officers as OASC are either FTRS or ADC these days.

 

[ninjarabbi]

Yep, R&S is riddled with FTRS.

Agreed, including some of the tubbiest and oldest I've ever seen!

 

[Stevienics]

Agreed, including some of the tubbiest and oldest I've ever seen!

Disgraceful

Theytukurrjarbs...!

 

[ninjarabbi]

Disgraceful

Theytukurrjarbs...!

I ain't kidding, one of them's so large she has her own gravity field!DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[unruly1986]

As a phase 1 instructor do you need the wider knowledge? Halton is there to turn recruits from Civies to trainees ready for phase 2. I see no reason why FTRS can't teach GSK, Square bash and teach how to look after uniform.


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I would argue that you definitely need the wider knowledge. We should have our brightest and best training the 'next generation'.

Within our own trade there are people at Cosford that have been there since I joined up. How can they realistically pass on any relevant knowledge when all they know is the training system?

 

[techie_tubby]

I would argue that you definitely need the wider knowledge. We should have our brightest and best training the 'next generation'.

Within our own trade there are people at Cosford that have been there since I joined up. How can they realistically pass on any relevant knowledge when all they know is the training system?

Agree with you for phase 2 but I don't think it is as much a concern for phase 1

 

[Barch]

I would argue that you definitely need the wider knowledge. We should have our brightest and best training the 'next generation'.

Within our own trade there are people at Cosford that have been there since I joined up. How can they realistically pass on any relevant knowledge when all they know is the training system?

Disagree, Halton turns the civvie into a raw airman, Cosford turns the raw airman into a trade trained airman and the wider RAF turns that trained airman into a productive (in most cases) airman.

If you want instructors at Halton and Cosford to be up to date with the goings on in the wider RAF and pass that on to the trainees you would need to change the instructors every couple of weeks.

Ranks, ironing, electronic theory, laws of levers etc etc do not change because a squadron has changed bases or Tornados have a new paint job.

 

[vim_fuego]

That said think
Back to Halton or if you're desiccated then Swinderby...those bits of spare time you get and you sit with your CPL and ask questions about the wider 'real' RAF that still seemed so far into the future...you hung on their every word, discussed what they said afterwards amongst yourselves long after they've gone. You need those words to be wise and not from a Sprog who is making it up as he lacks the time in.

 

[PraiseBacon]

Vim has a good point – I went though the sausage factory that was Swinderby in 1983, and can still remember the interactions with our DI Cpl like they were yesterday.

The intake I was on had an unusually large number of kids (16-17 year olds) – and the DI knew just how far to push, he certainly shouted a lot! – but more importantly, he also knew when to encourage.

In the block in the evenings – provided he was supplied Tea and Ciggy’s, would impart a lot of wisdom – not just how to get things clean, but how the RAF worked.

I remember his words to the group (where we needed to get better, what he was pleased with etc), and his quiet words with individuals in his office, or round the block (a well timed “ good effort on X” was very motivating)

I remember the PTI’s used to just shout and try to humiliate people for their own amusement. The Rocks were actually some of the finest instructors going – the first aid they drilled in has stayed with me for life – and I could still strip an SLR in seconds if handed one (I remember it clearer than I do the SA80). However, they were certainly not there to be friendly!

The DI’s were the glue that made Swinderby work , it pushed people quite hard and some of the actions from certain instructors would probably lead to accusations of bullying these days (because some things that happened were outright bullying in reality!)– but the experience of the DI’s normally stopped it getting out of hand.

Would an SAC a/Cpl get the same level of respect from the people he is training – and more importantly, from the rest of the instructors!

 

[the_worrier]

Having been a Flt Cdr at RTS I would say it is down to the calibre/mettle of the individual not their rank. I saw some poor SNCO instructors.

 

[UlsterExile]

Vim has a good point – I went though the sausage factory that was Swinderby in 1983, and can still remember the interactions with our DI Cpl like they were yesterday.

The intake I was on had an unusually large number of kids (16-17 year olds) – and the DI knew just how far to push, he certainly shouted a lot! – but more importantly, he also knew when to encourage.

In the block in the evenings – provided he was supplied Tea and Ciggy’s, would impart a lot of wisdom – not just how to get things clean, but how the RAF worked.

I remember his words to the group (where we needed to get better, what he was pleased with etc), and his quiet words with individuals in his office, or round the block (a well timed “ good effort on X” was very motivating)

I remember the PTI’s used to just shout and try to humiliate people for their own amusement. The Rocks were actually some of the finest instructors going – the first aid they drilled in has stayed with me for life – and I could still strip an SLR in seconds if handed one (I remember it clearer than I do the SA80). However, they were certainly not there to be friendly!

The DI’s were the glue that made Swinderby work , it pushed people quite hard and some of the actions from certain instructors would probably lead to accusations of bullying these days (because some things that happened were outright bullying in reality!)– but the experience of the DI’s normally stopped it getting out of hand.

Would an SAC a/Cpl get the same level of respect from the people he is training – and more importantly, from the rest of the instructors!

Is there a case to bring back the old Admin Trade, as it seems a lot of Stations have Discip Posts. Or the issue is to why does no Cpl wish to go to RTS, questions need to be asked.