SAC acting CPL OOA

[UlsterExile]

As you can guess by the thread this is happening. I heard some rumors a while back but were unsubstantiated, I have it confirmed by a source at stacker central. I cannot beleive we are going down this route, surely the numbers of 2 Bananas unavailable for deployment must be at an all time low. Also heard the possibility that Cpl's are going out as acting SNCO, now if this is true then that defeats the object.

I am at a loss for words at the minute so will leave it open for comments until I can gather my thoughts. :S

 

[Norman the Storeman]

I know of one guy who is due back any day now from a 3 month A/Cpl (paid) slot in the 'Ghan.

As for lack of JNCOs available for OOA, well it's nothing new. I remember a TS brief in 2006 stating 43% were unavailable. What's the percentage now?

 

[snowball1]

I know of one guy who is due back any day now from a 3 month A/Cpl (paid) slot in the 'Ghan.

As for lack of JNCOs available for OOA, well it's nothing new. I remember a TS brief in 2006 stating 43% were unavailable. What's the percentage now?[/QUOTE

Closer to 50% now i believe!

 

[TABETX AND SEND]

Been happening for years especially for FS going OOA as acting paid WODT_Xtremez_32:

 

[Spearmint]

A few slots on 1312 at MPA were filled like that when I was down there. (2009) it was also plainly obvious that some of those characters possessed very little of the required material for a Substansive Corporal.

 

[The Masked Geek]

it was also plainly obvious that some of those characters possessed very little of the required material for a Substansive Corporal.

As opposed to the handful of substantive Cpls who possess very little of the required material for a substantive SAC. DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Spearmint]

As opposed to the handful of substantive Cpls who possess very little of the required material for a substantive SAC. DT_Xtremez_14:

Very true! DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[RAF Bird]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all. TRT for Cpls currently at what 14 months and lots of SACs desperate to prove they are worthy of promotion. If you can act up here what difference does it make OOA?

 

[Messerschmitt Stacker]

Don't know what the big shock is for, they've had SACs acting up in OOA for years on the wing. In the late 90s early noughties alot of the wings commitments wouldnt have been possible without it!

 

[BJW]

If we had any semblance at all of "career management" those people who are selected to go OOA with acting rank would have been selected for their skill set and some reference would have been made to the prom rec on their last couple of SJARs. Instead we continue to select for nearly every post, both home based and OOA simply on a "next-on-the-list" basis.

Where personnel are given acting rank in the UK and don't cut the mustard then the appointment can be rescinded easily (I have done it). OOA is not so simple so we end up with people doing jobs that they are either not cut out for or just not up to; this does neither the individual, the trade nor the wider Service any favours.

The p*ss poor availability of cpls to go OOA has been that way for as long as I can remember. However, it is more reflective of the number we have in screened posts such as instructors, AFCO and those in their last 12 months of service than sickies. That we are sending cpls away as acting sgts is a new one on me and does seem to be counter-productive; I will do some digging on that one but I think all of the WO jobs are now done by substative WOs (ELLAMY excepted).

 

[UlsterExile]

If this is the way forward, then what is the TS doing about it? 14 months is unacceptable for turnrounds(IMHO), especially when we are a big trade. I agree with BJW that this does not do the service or Trade any favours when we are sending out people who are not able to properly fill that post. As a JNCO you have resposibilities, regardless wht people think it is a big step up and some people make a seemless transition and for some it takes a while. So while it may be ok for the likes of TSW as that is an in-house decision, and those people will have been chosen as they will have the necassary skill sets and respect by their peers. Sending out an SAC acting Cpl to an OOA post will pose it's own problems, especially if they have subordinates.

 

[The Nip]

I will do some digging on that one but I think all of the WO jobs are now done by substative WOs (ELLAMY excepted).[/QUOTE]

There will be a substansive WO on OP Ellamy soon.

If this is the way forward, then what is the TS doing about it? 14 months is unacceptable for turnrounds(IMHO), especially when we are a big trade.

What do you think the TS can do? Some OOA posts have been rank ranged. Some Cpl slots have been deleted. There are also some units who are doing their own acting slots for OOA, Odiham and Benson for example. TSW is another example where ranks are inflated . Whether you agree or not these are local commanders' decisions. They are continually sending out acting ranks as it helps promotion prospects. The latest Sgt - FS board is an example. It is not the only reason, there are many.

The information regarding these issues were briefed at the OC Log's conference last week where the WOs were invited to attend. There are no secrets just a lack of Cpls available for the many OOA slots which are out there. Things are not getting better. There is a limit on the size of the trade. You can't create people. In my experience the desk have their own agenda and dont help with the situation. Better give an example.
OOA slot(s) in the UK at a training school. Filled by a fully deployable person(s).
Just as a comparison, back in 95/96 I was at GDC. We were based in Monopoli. We had double figures a/c to look after. 4 months how many suppliers? Just 4. 2 per shift. 1 Cpl 1 SAC. No R&R and only standown is swing shift. I was brought back from Incirlik to do that OOA. Yes I did grumble, but as it was forcefully explained to me, 'shut up and get on that is your job'

 

[e-goatnewbie]

well, the last OOA i completed was as A/CPL (to afghanistan) and i think it works well in the tri servive environment, especially as there was a vast majority of army who all seemed to be acting up a rank too! so why not give our lads the chance to "shine" and earn some extra beer chits while doing so, Bring it on i say!DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[UlsterExile]

I will do some digging on that one but I think all of the WO jobs are now done by substative WOs (ELLAMY excepted).

There will be a substansive WO on OP Ellamy soon.

If this is the way forward, then what is the TS doing about it? 14 months is unacceptable for turnrounds(IMHO), especially when we are a big trade.

What do you think the TS can do? Some OOA posts have been rank ranged. Some Cpl slots have been deleted. There are also some units who are doing their own acting slots for OOA, Odiham and Benson for example. TSW is another example where ranks are inflated . Whether you agree or not these are local commanders' decisions. They are continually sending out acting ranks as it helps promotion prospects. The latest Sgt - FS board is an example. It is not the only reason, there are many.

The information regarding these issues were briefed at the OC Log's conference last week where the WOs were invited to attend. There are no secrets just a lack of Cpls available for the many OOA slots which are out there. Things are not getting better. There is a limit on the size of the trade. You can't create people. In my experience the desk have their own agenda and dont help with the situation. Better give an example.
OOA slot(s) in the UK at a training school. Filled by a fully deployable person(s).
Just as a comparison, back in 95/96 I was at GDC. We were based in Monopoli. We had double figures a/c to look after. 4 months how many suppliers? Just 4. 2 per shift. 1 Cpl 1 SAC. No R&R and only standown is swing shift. I was brought back from Incirlik to do that OOA. Yes I did grumble, but as it was forcefully explained to me, 'shut up and get on that is your job'[/QUOTE]


Cpl OOA turnround has gone down to what I would deem unaceptable. The TS should be looking into what has happened for the TR time to be reduced so quickly in such a short period. You cannot sustain 14 months TR for a lenghty period as this will have a detremental effect. You say that there are not enough Cpl's to fill the slots out there. Then we have either over extended ourselves or have too many sickies. We should not be in this situation, and I agree the desk have their own agenda and sometimes do not make best use of people's skill sets when sending them OOA.

 

[Jamstercat]

Maybe those selected for A/Cpl OOA Slots should be taken from the last SAC-Cpl board that are not high enough up the list to get promotion this year i.e. Numbers 53 to Numbers 124(A)

This would provide ACOS Manning with a nice pool of 72 SACs deemed promotable by the PSB to choose from to fill these roles.

It would be nice if ACOS Manning would take the time to look at recent experience too; a fuels person for a OOA fuels role.......not too much to ask.....is it?

 

[The Nip]

Cpl OOA turnround has gone down to what I would deem unaceptable. The TS should be looking into what has happened for the TR time to be reduced so quickly in such a short period. You cannot sustain 14 months TR for a lenghty period as this will have a detremental effect.

I am not here to take the ****, but the answer to the above 'what has happened' Well I think it is obvious, OP ELLAMY. For info the TS does not decide who/how many go out to the OP. The trade gets TOLD by HQ AC that they are taking x amount. As an aside it is logs in TH who have asked for more suppliers to ease the burden of the daily travel on top of their shift times. It makes for an easier det as you can have more time sunbathing etc but the TRT increses expotentionally. There is also the problem of Cpls leaving, from redundancy, continuance, time served, equals lots. Not good news but one that our paymasters have decided.

 

[UlsterExile]

I would be fool not to think that OP Ellamy would not have an impact on OOA for Cpl's and SNCO's, but to reduce the TRT for Cpl's from 24 months to 14 months is a big hit. However having a big percentage unavailable for OOA doesn't help. And to quote ACM Bryant "morale is fragile".

 

[Joe_90]

However, it is more reflective of the number we have in screened posts such as instructors, AFCO and those in their last 12 months of service than sickies. (ELLAMY excepted).

AFCOs aren't screened posts any more and as far as I know instructor duties aren't screened either, unless suppliers are different for some reason. I'm afraid it sounds more like sickies causing the problem.

 

[UlsterExile]

I can tell you that instructors are not screened.

 

[BJW]

I can tell you that instructors are not screened.

They used to be for the first 3 years, if that has changed I have missed it.

The historic average, across the board, of 10-15% being either permanently or temporarily downgraded has not changed dramatically since time immemorial and the Supply trade is comparable with all others.