R.A.F.A, RAFB, SSAFA & Legion Any thoughts?

[AndyZ]

Andy...not too sure if we have a "LOCAL" BRANCH (lossie) but if not in the village and it is close by what would be the point ? (not gonna go to drink coke and if it is any distance then just not gonna drink drive)

If there is no local branch you may still be interested in joining as many servicemen are members of the Legion are members of a "holding Branch" usually at a County level and sometimes membership is held in the Pall Mall Branch. This ensures you receive the Legion magazine and all other benefits of the Legion without having to actually attend a Branch or Club. I would say that overall around 70% of Legion members nationally (and internationally) do not attend a branch or club. May I also point out that to receive help from the Legion or RAFA you dont actually have to be a member of that association. Help is given to ALL serving and ex serving members of HM forces (and dependants), if they need the help, regardless of them being members of the RAFA or Legionor not.

 

[AndyZ]

I have been a member of the RAFA since my first posting. We used to use the local club rather than the NAAFI. Although the old geezers were pretty strict on the door they were welcoming enough and we used to have some good nights out. Not been in one since, though I am sure I will use one when I leave. If you are not made to feel welcome then say something. Surely we have a right to be members and once a member you have a right to voice your opinion and change things. If you are not welcomed then they are cutting their nose off to spite their face.

As an aside I have been in a Legion club a number of times over the years and found it to be very smokey. Hopefully this will have improved due to healthier attitudes and new laws being introduced.

You are quite correct, as members you are fully within your rights to voice your opinions and help to make changes. This is exactly the point I am trying to get over that as we get more "younger" members in to either the Legion or RAFA then it is down to them to start filling places on committees and basically take over. The "old" Boys have done their bit over the years admirably and well deserve to be able to sit back and enjoy the benefits of membership in the knowledge that their branch or club is in safe hands with the younger members holding the torch for the future. In saying that it would be remiss of me not to mention that in a few cases the old guard are fairly set in their ways and getting changes made within the Legion and RAFA at branch level is difficult to say the least. They are fully entrenched in their roles as President/Chairman and in some cases run their branches THEIR way, The associations are addressing this by implementing more training for all committee members and by so doing effect change. Dont be afraid to make your point it is YOUR Legion or RAFA and you are our future.
Your right in saying that the old clubs used to be "smokey" but as with all establishments things have changed and new healthier attitudes are being implemented, yet again if they are not its then down to you to put them right on this, but I'm quite sure that it wont be necessary. I know in my local branch we hold it in Cricket Club and the smokers go down the end of the hall to indulge(me included) so as not to disturb the non smokers, in our case it is done to be polite and has happened with no dramas no fuss just awareness that we as smokers need to be more considerate, this I hope is the case at most other branches too.

 

[skevans]

Thats a good attitude skevans a few more thinking like that would help, its very true that one day you just may need the help of RAFA/SSAFA/Legion always wise to plan ahead......I was not aware of the circulation of info via pay chits, RAF news and SROs as obviously I dont have access to any of them now....but at least they are trying to get the message out but alas as is proven by MingMong maybe the message just isnt getting through....is it just the RAFA that is mentioned or are the Legion and SSAFA covered too? and is RAFBF still deducted from pay each month voluntarily or mandatory?

On reflection I think MingMong may be right. My office is on a very small station and as such communication isn't as lacking as it is at some stations. I am on the mailing list for all the usual literature, RAF news, Quest, pathfinder, active etc and when things are a bit slow I filter my way through them. All these publications carry adverts for the various service charities, but are obviously only circulated 'in house'. I also get soldier magazine for some reason (?) and this also carries adverts for RAF and RN charities.

SRO's at a small unit are very boring to say the least, we still have paper copies because we are not connected to the intranet. maybe my SRO's aren't the norm as they carry a listing for the local RAFA.

There are definetly messages on the bottom of pay chits, however I quite agree that very few people check anything more than the balance due! I am the same.

However now that I have had time to think I dont remember the last time I saw anything whilst out at other stations. There are adverts in the national press for RAFBF, that much I am sure of, however I have never seen any national advertising for SSAFA, and the legion usually only 'appears' around remembrance day. St Dunstans does have a year round campaign via leaflet drops and the national press.

On balance none of this campaigning is very high profile, and so it's easy to see why it passes people by without much notice.

At this time of the year the RAFA launches it's wings appeal, lets hope they get a good response this year.

 

[AndyZ]

On reflection I think MingMong may be right. My office is on a very small station and as such communication isn't as lacking as it is at some stations. I am on the mailing list for all the usual literature, RAF news, Quest, pathfinder, active etc and when things are a bit slow I filter my way through them. All these publications carry adverts for the various service charities, but are obviously only circulated 'in house'. I also get soldier magazine for some reason (?) and this also carries adverts for RAF and RN charities.

SRO's at a small unit are very boring to say the least, we still have paper copies because we are not connected to the intranet. maybe my SRO's aren't the norm as they carry a listing for the local RAFA.

There are definetly messages on the bottom of pay chits, however I quite agree that very few people check anything more than the balance due! I am the same.

However now that I have had time to think I dont remember the last time I saw anything whilst out at other stations. There are adverts in the national press for RAFBF, that much I am sure of, however I have never seen any national advertising for SSAFA, and the legion usually only 'appears' around remembrance day. St Dunstans does have a year round campaign via leaflet drops and the national press.

On balance none of this campaigning is very high profile, and so it's easy to see why it passes people by without much notice.

At this time of the year the RAFA launches it's wings appeal, lets hope they get a good response this year.

Thanks again Skevans
This is the type of stuff I need to hear, all of this is being duly noted and will be put to our recriuting bods who are forever asking why but not asking the right people in my opinion. By getting good constructive critisism is the only way we can ever hope in finding a solution to our membership problems.

 

[gemarriott]

As A last contribution to this thread I hope I haven't put anybody off working for either SSAFA or the RBL they do fine works and my experiences as a caseworker were just that My experiences. I found although a few genuine hardship cases came through the door too many scroungers out for an easy buck made up the majority and to be quite frank I just didn't have the patience to be 2nic and touchy feely" with cnuts like that any longer. Fortunately there are people who can go through the motions with those kind of wankas and pull the stops out for those genuinly in need.

I have to admit though the convalescence thing and means testing carried out by the RAFA to get a place has really stuck in my craw and will be a cold day in hell before i ever darken their doorsteps.

All that said please don't be afraid to contact these organisations if ever youare in need, especially SSAFA and the RBL they can and almost certainly will help.

 

[RAFBF]

May I join?

May I join?

I have only just joined RAF E-Goat as I am looking for comments on JPA but ran across this thread - so excuse me if I get the etiquette wrong but....

Very interested in the comments and as a life member of RAFA and a committed supporter and helper of the RAFBF slightly dismayed by some of the perceptions of the welfare effort made on behalf of both RAFA and RAFBF. I don't want to bust in on another person's thread so will have a go at starting my own! The subject will be RAFA and RAFBF (the RAF's primary charities) and to start - mean's tests.

 

[AndyZ]

I have only just joined RAF E-Goat as I am looking for comments on JPA but ran across this thread - so excuse me if I get the etiquette wrong but....

Very interested in the comments and as a life member of RAFA and a committed supporter and helper of the RAFBF slightly dismayed by some of the perceptions of the welfare effort made on behalf of both RAFA and RAFBF. I don't want to bust in on another person's thread so will have a go at starting my own! The subject will be RAFA and RAFBF (the RAF's primary charities) and to start - mean's tests.

RAFBF feel free to continue within this thread as all comments about all the service charities are welcomed. The main aim of this thread was to establish the core reasons why serving members were not joining either the RAFA or TRBL and to answer (hopefully) some of their concerns. BTW welcome to the goat....long may you post.......

 

[RAFBF]

RAFA and RAFBF

RAFA and RAFBF

Sad to see some of the comments and perceptions about the RAF's principal charities - I am a life member of RAFA and a regular donor to the RAFBF. I am committed to both charities but - at present - only work on behalf of the RAFBF.
I do have the chance to place views about the Fund to those who run it on our behalf so would welcome any views - and to start off the Mean's Tests.

Yes, there is a means test for people seeking help but both charities are based on helping those in need - the mean's test is supposed to overcome the impact of the welfare visitor who took tea off a tea set worth more than his car! The facilities at the RAFA Respite homes are superb - they are not nursing homes but offer a break in a caring environment. If you can afford to go there - why shouldn't you pay? If you can't then the charities will.

Some people can't afford a holiday but I think that we all deserve to get a break. How do we get round the means test - we shouldn't but when I visit people I tell them that I and they contributed to their charities to help their mates in times of need - if they are now in need then it is there to help them. Neither membership of RAFA nor contributions to the RAFBF confer any entitlement to welfare assistance only an eligibility to ask for that assistance. Both charities exist for the RAF Family and they deserve our support - if they are getting it wrong then lets open the discussion further and then pass it up the line - your comments would be very welcome.

 

[AndyZ]

Sad to see some of the comments and perceptions about the RAF's principal charities - I am a life member of RAFA and a regular donor to the RAFBF. I am committed to both charities but - at present - only work on behalf of the RAFBF.
I do have the chance to place views about the Fund to those who run it on our behalf so would welcome any views - and to start off the Mean's Tests.

Yes, there is a means test for people seeking help but both charities are based on helping those in need - the mean's test is supposed to overcome the impact of the welfare visitor who took tea off a tea set worth more than his car! The facilities at the RAFA Respite homes are superb - they are not nursing homes but offer a break in a caring environment. If you can afford to go there - why shouldn't you pay? If you can't then the charities will.

Some people can't afford a holiday but I think that we all deserve to get a break. How do we get round the means test - we shouldn't but when I visit people I tell them that I and they contributed to their charities to help their mates in times of need - if they are now in need then it is there to help them. Neither membership of RAFA nor contributions to the RAFBF confer any entitlement to welfare assistance only an eligibility to ask for that assistance. Both charities exist for the RAF Family and they deserve our support - if they are getting it wrong then lets open the discussion further and then pass it up the line - your comments would be very welcome.

Hi RAFBF great thread,
I started my thread (RAFA & the LEGION) to get some answers regarding recruitment to RAFA and TRBL and as you have seen some very interesting points were raised regarding welfare. I have very little to do with these aspects so was clutching at straws for the right answers directly and offered to come back after research with a better response. You on the other hand have your finger on the pulse so to speak so was heartened to see your thread appear. Please feel free to comment on any matters that arise within my thread that you feel can answer it would be appreciated. Once again welcome to the goat....enjoy.

 

[gemarriott]

My beef with the convalscent homes means testing applicants is that it puts off people who genuinely require a supervised convalscent break from applying. Leading to the homes being used increasingly for a few repeat clients who qualify for simply a free holiday at the home as opposed to the home doing what it is supposed to do. Several openly boasting that they go 2 or 3 times a year for free and means they can have a longer holiday abroad in winter. I sent clients to Byng house several times for post operative or recuperative breaks and had to fight for partial funding for those who barely beat the means test, only for them to be spending 2 weeks with "holiday makers" on the 2nd and 3rd free visit of the year

Surely all those service qualified personnel and families irrespective of ability to pay in need of convalescance should be entitled to free place. There is nothing stopping those with the ability to pay making a voluntary donation.

I do still pay my dues to the RBL and SSAFA but no longer to RAFA and I must admit only grudgingly to the RAFBF but only because I realise if funds fall too low even more genuine cases will be missed.

 

[gemarriott]

I have only just joined RAF E-Goat as I am looking for comments on JPA but ran across this thread - so excuse me if I get the etiquette wrong but....

Very interested in the comments and as a life member of RAFA and a committed supporter and helper of the RAFBF slightly dismayed by some of the perceptions of the welfare effort made on behalf of both RAFA and RAFBF. I don't want to bust in on another person's thread so will have a go at starting my own! The subject will be RAFA and RAFBF (the RAF's primary charities) and to start - mean's tests.

Fire away all guns mate. the more we get posted the more chance we have of actually reaching the right sort of people.

I know you probably find my observations on the charities pretty harsh and hard to take. I accept that that may be the case but I can only speak from my personal experience as a caseworker.

I would always advise a person in genuine need of support of any kind to make contact with either the RBL or SSAFA. As previously stated I could not in all conscience advise approaching RAFA or RAFBF in the first instance but only as a last resort, as it is my honestly held opinion their focus is misguided and too many non worthy cases get preferential treatment.

Even after saying that I still pay my dues to the RAFBF each year and have a covenant in my will. I just hope the money I give goes to a genuine need and not another bloody holiday maker.


Finally, welcome to the goat don't worry too much about the etiquette especially in this forum, the subject is too important to be flippant about especially with the way we are engaged in hostilities around the world. It is important that our views are made, read and acted upon and so all serious input is very welcome.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Life member of RAFA,

RAFBF Contributer,

Would consider joining the RBL if they updated their site so it was possible to sign up on line, i.e not download an app form to fill out etc. I mean , you can get mortgages online, shop online, why not the RBL online, possibility of more members then.

We also are seeing a new kind of beneficiary, young lads with MH problems, bereaved families and the children who need help, the list goes on.


The big problem with the RAFA is that it appears to offer nothing more than hearing aids and zimmer frames as help and has failed to modernise to encompass the younger generations, and the RAFBF is seen almost as an officers club only. Many needy cases going missed.

Never the less, I have utmost respect for the volunteers of all the ex forces / forces organisations.



TW

 

[gemarriott]

Life member of RAFA,

RAFBF Contributer,

Would consider joining the RBL if they updated their site so it was possible to sign up on line, i.e not download an app form to fill out etc. I mean , you can get mortgages online, shop online, why not the RBL online, possibility of more members then.

We also are seeing a new kind of beneficiary, young lads with MH problems, bereaved families and the children who need help, the list goes on.

The big problem with the RAFA is that it appears to offer nothing more than hearing aids and zimmer frames as help and has failed to modernise to encompass the younger generations, and the RAFBF is seen almost as an officers club only. Many needy cases going missed.

Never the less, I have utmost respect for the volunteers of all the ex forces / forces organisations.

TW

for 2 years caseworking for SSAFA and assisting the RBL caseworkers following the Gulf war2 and 9/11 not one case of the 100+ I was involved with concerned either of those 2 conflicts. I had a couple of Falkland vets and the rest were WW2 and korea and mostly were widows and not servicemen, not that in any way lessens their eligibility.

I share your respect for those caseworkers who have the ability to sit through endless interviews ith ne'er do wells and to put it bluntly scroungers applying the rules of impartiality regardless, knowing that eventually the cases of genuine hardship you need to see will come through the door.

My biggest fear is pride will stop those in real need of assistance from applying. Fortunately I cannot see the need for me to apply for help in the future but I know if I did need help it is there. I also know that having worked in the field of forces charities I would not subject myself to the indignity of a means test no matter how desperate I was.

I will keep making my donations certain that it is essential to do so and that some of it will be spent wisely even if most is not.

That judgemental streak is what made be stop case working, I wasn't prepared to waste time and resources on the scroungers whilst waiting for the truly needy cases. No matter how big a glow came from really helping someone change their life.

 

[vim_fuego]

I've been getting more and more frustrated with the antiquated way in which we are forced to distribute funds from the various organisations whilst working cases for SSAFA...

It is a slow and lumpy system at the best of times from the initial phonecall asking for assistance to a caseworker like myself receiving a contact sheet and making initial contact being anything from 2 weeks to over a month in some cases...

Then once they've been assessed and I've almonised I end up with a cheque...No guarantee card. It is becoming increasingly difficult to get rid of these cheques in these days of so much fraudulence...In my area having a cheque with SSAFA embossed in the bottom right hand corner means nothing to a first or second generation asian lass who is department head in the shop I'm trying to spend it in...I did 80 miles in one day two weeks ago trying and trying to find a shop (that sold the item I needed) that would trust me enough to even accept it...Even after I impressed on them that in no way was I expecting to pick up the products until the cheque had cleared a few days later...

SSAFA, TRBL etc need to wake up and modernise...Get a corporate credit card and hold it in central office so that when I find the product I can phone them and they can pay over the phone...

Sorry if that rant was slightly off thread but nobody in my heirarchy is listening at the moment and I certainly feel better for it....DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[Rack Shelf Bin]

I was a member of the local Scottish Legion for about 2 years. Never really felt welcome to tell you the truth. The blue-rinse brigade used to turn their noses up at us young uns (mid 30s at the time). Also, most of the ones that turned their noses up had never had any direct association with the forces, they were just members that had been introduced to the Club.

Maybe when I'm posted I'll give it another shot.

I too have been a member of local RBL's, try to join where ever I'm posted to. Like Met I have not been welcomed I would say more tollerated, even been made to feel most uncomfortible in some. One particular one in Stoke on Trent I don't think there are any ex-service or serving forces people on the committee more like a working mens club.

 

[AndyZ]

I've been getting more and more frustrated with the antiquated way in which we are forced to distribute funds from the various organisations whilst working cases for SSAFA...

It is a slow and lumpy system at the best of times from the initial phonecall asking for assistance to a caseworker like myself receiving a contact sheet and making initial contact being anything from 2 weeks to over a month in some cases...

Then once they've been assessed and I've almonised I end up with a cheque...No guarantee card. It is becoming increasingly difficult to get rid of these cheques in these days of so much fraudulence...In my area having a cheque with SSAFA embossed in the bottom right hand corner means nothing to a first or second generation asian lass who is department head in the shop I'm trying to spend it in...I did 80 miles in one day two weeks ago trying and trying to find a shop (that sold the item I needed) that would trust me enough to even accept it...Even after I impressed on them that in no way was I expecting to pick up the products until the cheque had cleared a few days later...

SSAFA, TRBL etc need to wake up and modernise...Get a corporate credit card and hold it in central office so that when I find the product I can phone them and they can pay over the phone...

Sorry if that rant was slightly off thread but nobody in my heirarchy is listening at the moment and I certainly feel better for it....DT_Xtremez_19:

Thanks for that Vim, very useful idea about the credit card or any other better way of obtaining goods other than crossed cheques.....more ammunition here for change, and far better coming from the man on the frontline of casework. The Legion over the last fews years has been committed to change and upgrading and although the wheels of progress are turning very slowly it is happening, lo, it has to happen, the Charity Commission is fast on the heels of SSAFA, TRBL, RAFA and the RNA ensuring we enter the 21st century albeit 8/10 years late.

 

[skevans]

RAFBF, if you have something to say on the subject say it here.

Some of us look at things from a different perspective, but if we cant chat in a real crew room , where else is there apart from the virtual one?

 

[AndyZ]

I too have been a member of local RBL's, try to join where ever I'm posted to. Like Met I have not been welcomed I would say more tollerated, even been made to feel most uncomfortible in some. One particular one in Stoke on Trent I don't think there are any ex-service or serving forces people on the committee more like a working mens club.

Thank RSB,
I can only apologise for how you have been treated in the past, that is appalling, as to Legion committees not having servicemen, although this is unlikely as they must have at least one ex or serving member of HM forces, in this instance it may have been possible. Until recently the Legion had basically two types of membership, Ordinary membership for all ex and serving members of HM forces and Associated membership for dependants etc. and civilians. There is now one single membership open to all. Before, a committee HAD to comprise of a majority of Ordinary members and Associates could be on committee only after being in the Legion for a certain ammount of time. Now of course it is perfectly feasible for the entire committee to be made up of civilians, this situation is borne out of necessity for the branch to stay active. It can and obviously does happen so I can only assume that was the case at the branch you visited. Was the one in Stoke a Club or just a branch, as clubs are run completely differently and can be and often are ordinary social clubs that have been granted a British Legion status, so in fact are only Legion by name. I must stress that there is a strict criteria that clubs like this must follow to allow them to trade under the TRBL name. Branches that operate from such clubs are in fact separate from the club with a separate committee and the two must not be linked. In saying this there are branches that do "own" their own club and again their is strict management protocols for this occurance. All I do ask is please dont give up on the Legion, may I suggest taking out a direct debit membership through Pall Mall for Legion membership and that way you would not have to renew your membership each time you move, only join a "club" if you so wish but you would not have to as Legion membership entitles you to use Legion club facilities as a guest where ever you may go. AZ

 

[AndyZ]

Life member of RAFA,

RAFBF Contributer,

Would consider joining the RBL if they updated their site so it was possible to sign up on line, i.e not download an app form to fill out etc. I mean , you can get mortgages online, shop online, why not the RBL online, possibility of more members then.

We also are seeing a new kind of beneficiary, young lads with MH problems, bereaved families and the children who need help, the list goes on.


The big problem with the RAFA is that it appears to offer nothing more than hearing aids and zimmer frames as help and has failed to modernise to encompass the younger generations, and the RAFBF is seen almost as an officers club only. Many needy cases going missed.

Never the less, I have utmost respect for the volunteers of all the ex forces / forces organisations.



TW

I will respond to your quote about updating the RBL site...good point and one I will personally raise with the managers of the site, I am almost sure that something like this is already being considered but I will contact them anyway. AZ

 

[RAFBF]

Thanks for making me welcome............

Thanks for making me welcome............

and for the comments. When I first started working with RAFA and RAFBF I had many similar concerns (and still have a few!) which I had to answer before I committed myself.

First the mythology about RAFA being for non-commissioned and RAFBF for commissioned. I don’t know about the past but it isn’t true now. The problem for RAFA is it is a membership organisation and while all from the RAF Family (and others) are welcomed as members most do not join and many who do - do not then get involved leaving it up to the ‘older generation’ to organise and get things done. The Fund though makes welfare grants based only on need. I went to an event where I met 2 ex-RAF guys and their families. One had been in an accident on his way to work – he is now a paraplegic and was married with a young child. The other had MS, was in a wheelchair, married with 2 children. Neither had any money, they lived in MQs and would have required social housing as they were being medically discharged. Because of the way in which social housing works (although I didn’t fully understand) the entitlement was where they were based rather than near their families where they could have got more support. The Fund purchased a house for each, based on the families’ requirements where they wanted to live. As I understand they live in the house, with a rent based on their ability to pay for as long as either partner needs it. I felt that this was absolutely what I donated for – one was a Flt Lt and the other an SAC but who cares! They both needed help and I was humbled just by meeting them.

Back to Means Test – on one side we have the comment that people are going for 3 free holidays a year before going to the Med on their hols while deserving cases are unable to get a convalescent break because they have to pay. I don’t believe it! But then I have only visited the RAFA/RAFBF respite homes and don’t know what happens in other charities. Once again I can’t comment about the past but having delivered a ‘client’ to a respite home I have had the chance to meet the people there and they came across as either being there because they couldn’t afford a break elsewhere or there for convalescence/pick up or both. If the charities have limited resources and I understand that the Association refers any case needing significant financial support to the Fund then how do you make a decision about who goes – I can’t see any other way than by a financial regulator? That means questions about the ability to pay – is it the way in which this is carried out that makes for the indignity? If so then how can we/I do it better?

Finally a comment on the numbers applying for help – most from WWII etc. A vast majority of those who served in WWII – minimum age now 77 but the majority 80+ - left the services without any form of future pension to get back to their former lives. Those who did National Service did likewise. There were 1.2 Million in the RAF in 1946 (45,000 today?) – financial need can occur at any age but it is more likely as pensions become worth less and expenses build up. If RAFA are funding zimmer frames and hearing aids then that is what is needed. From the RAFBF’s last report they appear to be helping across a very wide range and at very different costs – including families from the Hercules tragedy so when I give I don’t do it grudgingly!

Sorry to bang on but I am passionate about the work of both charities and will do all that I can to improve their service and their reputation – I note that the Fund is currently running a campaign to identify any needy cases with the comment ‘once RAF always RAFBF’ – both charities web sites are linked to this one.