PVR Notice period change

[Tu Rigole!]

Has anyone else heard the rumour that PMA are going to extend the PVR notice period from 6 months to 12 for certain trades as of 31 March 13 but they are trying to keep the lid on it so as to try and prevent an even bigger exodus before then?

 

[Cooheed]

No, but wouldn't surprise me. 12 months for a bright eyed civvy to reach SENIOR aircraftsman/woman status. They will fill the gaps.....

 

[Joe_90]

It's been happening since about 2 months after the last round of redundee's was announced. If you keep an eye on the Manning page they tend to give about a months notice of any changes.

 

[BillyBunter]

Im pretty sure under European law if you wanted to leave you could be out with 30 days notice

 

[BackDrafter]

And I'm pretty sure that if the RAF were subject to European (employment(?)) law we'd be called a budget airline.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Im pretty sure under European law if you wanted to leave you could be out with 30 days notice

Hi BillyBunter, since you're obviously a legal expert, I'd like you to represent me in the European court ,,,, no win no fee of course. Would you mind providing your credentials please.

 

[BackDrafter]

I think I've seen his firms advert, and it claims to have up to 9 years of barrack block law experience, supplemented by hundreds of crew room court sessions.

 

[PraiseBacon]

Im pretty sure under European law if you wanted to leave you could be out with 30 days notice

'fraid you are mistaken on two counts:

Firstly, On open ended (permanent ) employment, the notice period is as determined in the terms and conditions you sign. For example, I have a six month notice period if I resign - and most of my staff are on 3 months notice.

Secondly,the RAF doesn't offer you open ended employment, they offer you a fixed term contract, which can be extended to further fixed terms , by mutual consent, depending on a number of criteria. Essentially, when you PVR, you are not resigning as a permanent employed would, you are breaking the terms of a contract you signed up for - therefore the employer can either hold you to the terms of the contract - for example, refuse the PVR request, (which has happened in the past) , or determine the terms on which they will allow the contract to be broken, , such as time period before release, payback of investment in you etc...

If you want to look up the law on it, the first one falls under FTE law (full time employee) and the second under employment law for FTC (fixed term contractor)

 

[Keyser Söze]

I think I've seen his firms advert, and it claims to have up to 9 years of barrack block law experience, supplemented by hundreds of crew room court sessions.

Oh bugg#r ! You cant mean he's talking complete bollox then BackDrafter DT_Xtremez_15:, ah well dam and blast it ;0)

 

[enginesuck]

It would make sense, from the RAFs perspective to extend the PVR time, i remember when some trades PVR waiting time was 18 Months - id expect techies to be affected if it does happen.

 

[Mag2grid]

'fraid you are mistaken on two counts:

Firstly, On open ended (permanent ) employment, the notice period is as determined in the terms and conditions you sign. For example, I have a six month notice period if I resign - and most of my staff are on 3 months notice.

Secondly,the RAF doesn't offer you open ended employment, they offer you a fixed term contract, which can be extended to further fixed terms , by mutual consent, depending on a number of criteria. Essentially, when you PVR, you are not resigning as a permanent employed would, you are breaking the terms of a contract you signed up for - therefore the employer can either hold you to the terms of the contract - for example, refuse the PVR request, (which has happened in the past) , or determine the terms on which they will allow the contract to be broken, , such as time period before release, payback of investment in you etc...

If you want to look up the law on it, the first one falls under FTE law (full time employee) and the second under employment law for FTC (fixed term contractor)

Agree with all the above, that being said if you gave 30 days notice would they come after you? You have given your employer due notice you no longer intend to work for them after a certain date. Your likely to get done for being abscent from place of duty without authorised leave, but if your going to leave anyways? Might get you some time in Colchester....

there are various stories going around of people who have sent resignation letters to their OC, PSF and Manning telling them they are giving 30 days notice and they're off, if there is any truth in the matter is another story. Considering things like terminal leave, annual leave etc i was able to get my discharge time down to significantly more less then it should have been, that being said because a scribe didn't give me the right forms to fill out I also lost a months wages! T&sser the had the cheek to call me up 3 weeks later demanding I drive back to me place of discharge to sign then, promptly told him where to stick it, post me the forms and I'll send the, back at my convenience...regards MR MAG2GRID.

 

[PraiseBacon]

Agree with all the above, that being said if you gave 30 days notice would they come after you? You have given your employer due notice you no longer intend to work for them after a certain date. Your likely to get done for being abscent from place of duty without authorised leave, but if your going to leave anyways? Might get you some time in Colchester....

there are various stories going around of people who have sent resignation letters to their OC, PSF and Manning telling them they are giving 30 days notice and they're off, if there is any truth in the matter is another story. Considering things like terminal leave, annual leave etc i was able to get my discharge time down to significantly more less then it should have been, that being said because a scribe didn't give me the right forms to fill out I also lost a months wages! T&sser the had the cheek to call me up 3 weeks later demanding I drive back to me place of discharge to sign then, promptly told him where to stick it, post me the forms and I'll send the, back at my convenience...regards MR MAG2GRID.

First part - If someone gave 30 days notice and just walked out - yes they would be AWOL. Whether or not it would be chased is a different issue. With me being me, if someone who was a decent bloke left with short notice to tie in with a good job offer, and gave all the notice he could - I might be understanding. If someone ****ed me off by walking out and dropping the team in it - I'd be likely to repay the compliment with a stay at Colchester.

There have been 'stories' of people doing 'things' as long as I can remember - mostly they turn out to be wishful thinking or a fabrication.

That said, all things tend to be negotiable - working with you line management to agree an exit date (particularly if you have a good offer on the table externally) will often work. It will certainly be more effective than writing a 30 day notice letter ....

As an aside, I have since being a civvy - held some people to their full notice period (both working and on gardening leave), and released people early by agreement.

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

First part - If someone gave 30 days notice and just walked out - yes they would be AWOL. Whether or not it would be chased is a different issue. With me being me, if someone who was a decent bloke left with short notice to tie in with a good job offer, and gave all the notice he could - I might be understanding. If someone ****ed me off by walking out and dropping the team in it - I'd be likely to repay the compliment with a stay at Colchester.

Be honest, was the MOD ever loyal to them? So why should they care when walking out, they are walking for a reason.

 

[Realist78]

Speaking to a mate last night who has just left (ISL), a member of some visiting top brass said if it was directly up to him he would make folks give 3 years notice. Paid imprisonment? Simple way out of that would be to fail the AFT etc.

 

[BillyBunter]

ok my wording with regards to European law was not meant to sound like that. I was pretty sure in the past people have challenged the PVR time and got a release of contract of 30 days (this was many years back mind you) And they used the European working rules directive. Again it was years back and they have probably made that clause watertight now. But i just mentioend it rather than getting shot down in flames.

 

[firestorm]

<pulls up sand bag and swings lamp>
Back in the day, when my trade was hemorrhaging people, like a Ugandan with ebola virus, the PVR time scale was 18 months and you had to pay them £800 for the privilege.

 

[Dazzy26]

A little off topic, my place has had a gapped post for a while, which we could live with, but another chap was accepted for voluntary redundancy. Now he has gone I contacted Manning for at least 1 replacement and was told I would have to provide an impact statement as to why I needed it filling due to trade manning short falls! Sent the said statement off, and got a lovely e mail back saying statement accepted and up held so would get both positions filled. The last line stated however due to manning short falls in trade we are unable to give a time scale as to when posts will be filled!! So it wouldn't surprise me if PVR waiting times do go up, or are they just letting people go as a lead up to SDSR 2015?

 

[Mug?]

as an aside

as an aside

Is there a list of the posts that went with redundancy?
Has any section been told "you will lose these 3 posts as redundant"
I image a few would be within IPTs for aircraft we no longer operate, but wondered if there was any front line positions?

 

[FootTapper]

Is there a list of the posts that went with redundancy?
Has any section been told "you will lose these 3 posts as redundant"
I image a few would be within IPTs for aircraft we no longer operate, but wondered if there was any front line positions?

As I understand it - "posts" don't get made redundant, the RAF cuts a number of people from a particular rank/trade regardless of which post they fill.

To create or remove a post it needs to be established/ dis-established.

This is how someone can be made redundant and then have a replacement posted in to fill the job they were doing. For the purpose of redundancy you "job" (which gets made redundant) is your rank/trade, not your post.

This has the unfortunate side effect that, since the redundancy board don't take into account the post a person occupies, we have had situations where several people from a particular unit/ section all get redundancy giving the local management a massive headache. Eg - Brize Armourers lost several NCOs all in one go, including the bulk of experience from the Training Cell. The end result is the management then need to give acting rank to maintain supervision.

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

Speaking to a mate last night who has just left (ISL), a member of some visiting top brass said if it was directly up to him he would make folks give 3 years notice. Paid imprisonment? Simple way out of that would be to fail the AFT etc.

I once saw an interesting documentary on the Army. At the time they had the same problem of a long PVR time and having to buy your way out. So one common loophole soldiers did to get out quick was fail the drugs test.