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wgaf
Guest
Agreed, however PCSOs are not military people and I doubt they recieve any where near the same level of training as us, I stand to be corrected.
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Police defend drowning death case
- Thread starter Fearless Leader
- Start date
The Stig A.D.I.
Corporal
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I was fizzin' when I read this opening thread and was immediately on my high horse, blaming both the PCSOs and the parents! Then I began to read the rest of the posts, including the updated news report and the various quotes etc. I am now of the opinion that, actually, nobody was to blame - this was indeed just a terrible, tragic accident.
I too remember the story from the 80's where the PC followed the dog & it's owner into the sea at Blackpool and all died as a result - on the other hand, we regularly hear of people being rescued from life-threatening situations by passers by...
I was on a First Response team at Boulmer for a few years until recently and attended hundreds of 999 calls ranging from fatal RTAs to heart attacks etc where, moreoften than not, members of the public were already in attendance and doing all the good stuff! One incident which springs to mind was a call to the coast near Ashington, where a young lad had gone into the water from the rocks while fishing (his dad & his dad's mate were walking back fom a nearby pub when they saw a woman screaming on the rocks...). The sea was rough and when we arrived (at around the same time as lots of police and coast-guards), the dad had jumped in and the mate had followed. Almost immediately, the lad was pulled from the water by some passers by, and the dad managed to scramble to safety about five minutes later - his mate wasn't so lucky! The swell carried him about 20 yards down the coastline to where he was inaccessable by land and spent the next 15 minutes or so being bashed against the rocks by the waves. Eventually he was plucked to safety by 202 SAR and whisked away and the result was cheers and backslapping all around for all involved.
But what if one or all of these three had died?
The blame culture in this country these days is rife!
At the end of the day, this young lad is dead - a tragic end to such a young life!
Nobody's fault, just tragic...
I too remember the story from the 80's where the PC followed the dog & it's owner into the sea at Blackpool and all died as a result - on the other hand, we regularly hear of people being rescued from life-threatening situations by passers by...
I was on a First Response team at Boulmer for a few years until recently and attended hundreds of 999 calls ranging from fatal RTAs to heart attacks etc where, moreoften than not, members of the public were already in attendance and doing all the good stuff! One incident which springs to mind was a call to the coast near Ashington, where a young lad had gone into the water from the rocks while fishing (his dad & his dad's mate were walking back fom a nearby pub when they saw a woman screaming on the rocks...). The sea was rough and when we arrived (at around the same time as lots of police and coast-guards), the dad had jumped in and the mate had followed. Almost immediately, the lad was pulled from the water by some passers by, and the dad managed to scramble to safety about five minutes later - his mate wasn't so lucky! The swell carried him about 20 yards down the coastline to where he was inaccessable by land and spent the next 15 minutes or so being bashed against the rocks by the waves. Eventually he was plucked to safety by 202 SAR and whisked away and the result was cheers and backslapping all around for all involved.
But what if one or all of these three had died?
The blame culture in this country these days is rife!
At the end of the day, this young lad is dead - a tragic end to such a young life!
Nobody's fault, just tragic...
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Yossarian
Guest
Quite. Well said.
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mad_mo
Guest
If I remember correctly, when the PCSO venture first kicked off in London the training was:
1 week classroom based on basic points of the law/pocket book proceedure / crime scene preservation etc.
Radio proceedures.
A very basic first aid lesson & basic self - defence.
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Tapper's Dad
Guest
I understand the little girl was pulled out by 2 fishermen, no-one has blamed them for not jumping in to save the little lad. They could see him and were aware he was drowning yet did nothing.
Even the best trained can fall foul.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3697006.stm
My 2 penny worth? GMP don't allow their people to enter water as they aren't trained in water rescue, as probably everyone on this site aren't trained either. Now if they expect their employees to do such acts they MUST provide kit and training. It (unfortunately) isn't about saving lives, it's about avoiding improvement notices, law suits and massive fines.
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Sorry but thats just bloody stupid-
The court heard that Mr Metcalf, a joinery lecturer at Accrington and Rossendale College who was a "strong swimmer", entered the water 30 minutes after Reyaz disappeared
Thats the point mate.
We may all feel we must do something, but few are equipped or trained to do so.
This incident caused a lot of soul searching and a massive shift in policy and training.
Also while people know about this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex
they'll always try to do the right thing.
We may all feel we must do something, but few are equipped or trained to do so.
This incident caused a lot of soul searching and a massive shift in policy and training.
Also while people know about this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex
they'll always try to do the right thing.
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merlin
Guest
It's gone and I can't see it's return in future. People in the public sector/services will not attempt anything that is not in their "job description" and they justify it by waffling on about training, health & safety blah blah blah.
These little waste of rations would of already justified their actions or lack of them to themselves and have had others spout crap on their behalf.
Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted.
With respect to the above comment my collegues and myself included do and have gone beyond the training and orders to get the jobe done to save life that is what we do!! However it could just be that in the 90's GMC lost a Sub Officer trying to save a boy in similar circumstances, the fire authority have only just been cleared by the HSE and the ramifacations of this were that all FRA's had to train all firefighters to water rescue levels 1 &2.
The police authority wont want to make the same mistake so they will threaten all employees with disciplinary action should they disregard said order. They are however morally bankrupt for putting undertrained staff into these situations and we will all now have to await the coroners dessision.
These little waste of rations would of already justified their actions or lack of them to themselves and have had others spout crap on their behalf.
Sometimes you have to stand up and be counted.
With respect to the above comment my collegues and myself included do and have gone beyond the training and orders to get the jobe done to save life that is what we do!! However it could just be that in the 90's GMC lost a Sub Officer trying to save a boy in similar circumstances, the fire authority have only just been cleared by the HSE and the ramifacations of this were that all FRA's had to train all firefighters to water rescue levels 1 &2.
The police authority wont want to make the same mistake so they will threaten all employees with disciplinary action should they disregard said order. They are however morally bankrupt for putting undertrained staff into these situations and we will all now have to await the coroners dessision.
You get no argument from me fella. 
DT_Xtremez_28:
Going into the water is a last resort, though I've seen it done. Unless you're a swift water rescue technician you never go into moving water. (the PCSO's incident was a pit)
If your employer requires you to do something then they should train and equip you for it.
DT_Xtremez_28:Going into the water is a last resort, though I've seen it done. Unless you're a swift water rescue technician you never go into moving water. (the PCSO's incident was a pit)
If your employer requires you to do something then they should train and equip you for it.
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merlin
Guest
Well said Firestorm Unfortunately the great unwashed (general public) see a uniform and expect something to be done!! Has anybody thought that the officers concerned my not have been able to swim.
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Why should "coppers on the cheap" risk their lives for a drowning person, they are part timers, we need more regulars with proper training and better levels of backup policing our streets
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mad_mo
Guest
SB. I think you will find in most forces, PCSO's do the same number of hours as regular officers.
Surley Special Constables are the part timers!
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They don't get the same pay or protection though do they. If they're good enough to be Community policemen, make them regulars.
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mad_mo
Guest
Im not an expert on their T&C's, but look at the Met Police PCSO's pay!
http://www.metpolicecareers.co.uk/default.asp?action=article&ID=38
I thought everyone would risk their lives for a drowning child.
Within reason, entering the water is a last resort even for trained life guards. added to which they didn't really know where the boy was or how long he had been under.
Nobody has asked why the fishermen didn't get him out or where the parents were.
This has been an exercise by the press to have a go at PCSO's.
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mad_mo
Guest
Ive never been a fan from the start regarding the introduction of PCSO's. But I have to agree with Wolfy on this.
The Press have had their pound of flesh and targeted PCSO's. Who next! The Fire or Ambulance Service??