Police defend drowning death case

[mad_mo]

The fishermen with the aid of a proper copper managed to get the little boy out of the water. If that would of happened a few minutes earlier, well who knows.

The incident happened in a dis-used quarry pit which are known to be very deep. Sorry Vagabond but I agree with the Asst Cheif Cons and that was a search job for a specialist team, i.e Underwater Search Unit.

 

[laboratoryqueen]

The fishermen with the aid of a proper copper managed to get the little boy out of the water. If that would of happened a few minutes earlier, well who knows.

However that wasn't likely, as has now been stated, the emergency services had been sent to the wrong location, the PCSO's arrived some time after the boy had last been seen and it was one of them who directed the services to the correct location. If the boy was exhausted from trying to keep his sister afloat and then he submerged, it would not take long for him to drown. If his location was unknown, time would be spent finding him.

Now if the parents had given supervision to young children who were playing around a lake, collecting tadpoles, then perhaps things could have been different

 

[pie sandwich]

If I had turned up I sure as hell would have gone in even though the boy had not been seen for some time, because you never know if those extra few moments could save him, those PCSO's have a lot to answer for, even if they only brought back a dead body at least they would have tried.

As for blaming the mum, how many of you as kids told your mum one thing and went off somewhere else "for an adventure" or went to where you told your mum and ended up elsewhere.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

If I had turned up I sure as hell would have gone in even though the boy had not been seen for some time, because you never know if those extra few moments could save him, those PCSO's have a lot to answer for, even if they only brought back a dead body at least they would have tried.

Yeah and so a few others are saying. Easy to say that sat from the comfort of a computer keyboard though isn't it?
This is the problem with the internet, loads of people sit in judgement of others without being in full possession of the facts or knowing exactly what the situation was at the time.

 

[Kernow]

Imagine how many other people who read this story earlier are now slating the PCSOs and the police in general for their inability to act, but have not seen the revised story. The press have a lot to answer for in terms of leading joe public up the garden path before presenting more accurate facts. Maybe instead of jumping the gun to be the first to report something they should take a step back, take a deep breath and then do what they are actually supposed to do which report the facts.

 

[laboratoryqueen]

If I had turned up I sure as hell would have gone in even though the boy had not been seen for some time, because you never know if those extra few moments could save him, those PCSO's have a lot to answer for, even if they only brought back a dead body at least they would have tried.

As for blaming the mum, how many of you as kids told your mum one thing and went off somewhere else "for an adventure" or went to where you told your mum and ended up elsewhere.

You jump in to a deep expanse of water, where are you going to look? Yes it is still instinct to try, and that would make sense if on scene at the time or immediately afterwards, not when some time has passed. As a body passes down through deep water it never does just fall straight down, so it's very unlikely to be in the same place where it was last seen.

He went in to save his 8 year old sister, he was 10 so at the age for being allowed that bit further from home, but not at 8 years old, too young to be allowed to wander away from home.

 

[pie sandwich]

Yeah and so a few others are saying. Easy to say that sat from the comfort of a computer keyboard though isn't it?
This is the problem with the internet, loads of people sit in judgement of others without being in full possession of the facts or knowing exactly what the situation was at the time.

You can wind your neck in for starters.

I know I would have done it because I have done it. So stick it up your crimper!

 

[propersplitbrainme]

You can wind your neck in for starters.

I know I would have done it because I have done it. So stick it up your crimper!

Wind yours in pal because so have I, but then again I could see where the lad in question went in and which way the current was flowing.
Are you honestly going to tell me you went in blind having arrived some time after the event in your case?

 

[True Blue Jack]

I was at Laarbruch when a 3 year old boy drowned in plain sight of hundreds of people during the last annual raft race. Scores of us linked hands and trawled the lake to look for him but his body was only discovered when the specialist diving team turned up.

I like to think that in the PCSOs' position I would have made every effort to find the boy and training be damned. But I know from bitter experience how hard it is to find something at the bottom of relatively shallow water. In reality they had next to no chance.

 

[busby1971]

Ultimately you've got to blame the parents for letting their kids play near water without making sure they can look after themselves. if they are unable to look after themselves then their parents should have been there to look after them.

But to be honest the PCSO should have made some effort, if only to show willing, but it is not their fault the kid is dead, they are just an easy scapegoat for the parents to shift the blame onto.

 

[4mastacker]

The updated BBC web page and the ACC's statement certainly put a different slant on the incident. I based my earlier comments, not only on the original web-report, but what was also being put out on Radio 2 and Radio 4. Will I now soften the tone of my earlier post? No! I will not!

I still think that the police and PCSO's actions leave an unsavoury taste in the mouth about the Police Forces which are meant to support and protect the public at large. This evening, I was listening to Radio 4 on my way to pick-up Mrs 4ma and this incident was being discussed. A police representative stated that policemen no longer have to be able to swim and that it is not the police's job to rescue people from water-based incidents - that is the job of the Fire and Rescue service.

"It's not my job!" seems to be the all-to-common get-out for people who are prepared to take the money but not the responsibility.

I joined the RAF as a stacker, not as a binman, fireman, grave-digger, knackeryard-man or to do all the other gash jobs that get flung in our direction when some jobs-worth goes on strike. But, I done as I was told and got on with it. I was never trained to pull a human body from wreckage - but I done it because there was no-one else there to do it. If the police and their plastic muppets want the support of the general public, they need to start acting in manner that earns respect and not ridicule and scorn.

As for the parent, I think she will benefit by re-considering her comments.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I think the parents have been blaming themselves enough without us pointing the finger as well. The mother's comments - assuming she has been quoted in context - tell of a mother suffering the pain of grief and guilt.

I used to go collecting tadpoles when I was those kids' age, usually without my parents' knowledge. I encourage my kids to go out and play with their friends unsupervised as much as possible. They know where they are allowed to go, and what time they should be back. They also get punished appropriately when they disobey me. The alternative is to wrap them in cotton wool and protect them from all of life's dangers. What kind of adults will they grow up to be then?

This was a tragic accident, nothing more or less.

 

[Bitburger]

I think the parents have been blaming themselves enough without us pointing the finger as well. The mother's comments - assuming she has been quoted in context - tell of a mother suffering the pain of grief and guilt.

I used to go collecting tadpoles when I was those kids' age, usually without my parents' knowledge. I encourage my kids to go out and play with their friends unsupervised as much as possible. They know where they are allowed to go, and what time they should be back. They also get punished appropriately when they disobey me. The alternative is to wrap them in cotton wool and protect them from all of life's dangers. What kind of adults will they grow up to be then?
This was a tragic accident, nothing more or less.

The type that would not jump in the water to try to save a kid.

 

[busby1971]

I did not mean to defend the PCSOs, their boss did that, I live near some dikes, the fenland type, and my 3 year old already has swimming lessons for when he strays further from the house than he's allowed, which I am sure he will do.

The parents grief must be huge and I can understand why they want to blame others but at the end of the day this was an accident, the PCSOs got there too late, I'm sure the fishermen gave it there best before they arrived and the PCSOs proabably could do no more than they had already done so.

Most people of sceptical of the not quite police officers but at least they coordinated getting the 'trained' guys to the right place as quickly as possible.

As ever my thoughts with the parents, but lets not blame innocents for arriving too late at the scene of an accident. We were'nt there we don't know all the facts as as been proven today the press don't exactly say it as it is.

 

[Rich_P]

Here's another thought. What if they had tried to do something that they are not trained or supposed to do and it all went wrong? In today's society I think they would get some hefty suing action taking place on them!

People are afraid of doing anything outside what their job states and what they're trained to do, because if they do more and it goes wrong then they are likely to get sued these days. DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[pie sandwich]

After re-reading it I just cant help thinking that why didnt they get in there to help.

It must have been more than just a few moments after they turned up, nobody would be able to standby and watch.
So I cant help but think the poor lad must have been under a while if they didnt go looking, because lets face it if you are told there is a young boy drowning and you cant see him you would go in and look even if experience tells you that it is a no go and you will not find anyone, but you never know, you just would not be able to help yourself unless it had been more than say 15 -20 min and then you just have to accept it.

But I still say how many of you know where your kids are 100% of the time and can keep an eye on them, kids do wander off so we cant just blame the parents for this straight away.

 

[Tashy_Man]

In today's society I think they would get some hefty suing action taking place on them!

Well thats the BIG problem with the UK society these days....blame culture is rife......wonder where we get that from...oh the good old US of A.

Crack on................DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Right, has anybody here had any training in Lifesaving??? It's been 25 years since I've done some while doing DofE and the basic rule is you do not put yourself in danger to rescue somebody period unless you have the correct training, equipment and back up to get you out of the sh!t if something happens to you. Its the same rule as in Fire Fighting or First Aid.

So you jump in the water, A copper did that at Blackpool back in the 1980's to try and save a bloke who had gone into the sea to save his dog when it had been washed away. The result, one dead dog, one dead civilian and one dead copper.

Six foot of water, great if your just under six foot high and your feet are tangled up in some underwater vegetation. You’re as dead as the person you’re looking for.

The guys who rescued the girl did the right thing, go as far into the water as was safe, and use the fishing rods for her to grab on to. As for the plastic Coppers, they did their job, as they were suppose to, find out what is going on and get the people on the scene who were trained to do the job without killing themselves.

Rule Number One when trying to save someone in trouble on the water is -

Don't go into the water, unless you have to and if you have to, have some method of rescuing you if something happens to you.

 

[wgaf]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Everyone has sat and judged the PCSOs and parents and found blame or not, the only fact we actually have here is that a 10 year old boy lost his life in a tragic accident. They happen every day unfortunately and people loose their lives. There is now a family that will have to live everyday of their lives wondering what could have been and two PCSOs wondering what more they could have done. It's not going to change anything and I really don't think it serves any purpose in these sorts of instances to apportion blame.
RIP young 'un.

 

[pie sandwich]

not forgetting one PCSO could have stayed on the bank and one gone in.

We have all been given training on how to attempt to save a life, it's part of CCS, doing the breaths and chest compressions dont save a life they stave off death, untill paramedics arrive.


If you and a mate were there what would you have done?? Stood by and done nowt or said you stay here iam going in,

It is in our nature as military people to risk our lives so that others may live, be it on the battlefield or at home. There is never a question of health and safety we just do it, and to hell with the consequence's.