OOA Prep - Weapon Indent

[muttywhitedog]

General question for deploying goaters that may need to take a weapon with them, or have a zeroed one put in storage...

Who is it that tells your armoury that you need to be issued with a weapon?

 

[techie_tubby]

You do as part of your prep if you are off as an IA. There should be a form for you to use, your assignment number is usually used as proof.

 

[Downsizer]

At my unit it is the individual deploying. Only exception being certain FUs that have permanent allocations in which case the FU admin often indent on behalf of the individual.

Here it effectively needs to be indented for twice, once for IPDT/ICRT and then for the actual deployment. Thats how it rolls here....

 

[muttywhitedog]

You do as part of your prep if you are off as an IA. There should be a form for you to use, your assignment number is usually used as proof.

At which point do you do it? Both sets of preps that HR issue do not include the armoury.

 

[Downsizer]

At which point do you do it? Both sets of preps that HR issue do not include the armoury.

Sounds like HR should add that to the preps, here it is part of all the preps to confirm they have sorted it.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Thats what I thought! As you know, I am HR and I have signed off over 200 of these indents for my FU personnel who need a weapon. I have also signed off plenty for IAs who deploy.

However, imagine my surprise today when I asked for the weapon I zeroed yesterday on my range day on IPDT and I was told by the armoury that I couldnt take it as it was a "pool weapon", and now I have to give up a day of my pre-deployment leave to re-zero another weapon.

And before you ask "why didnt I just go over to the armoury", it is because as HR I have raised these forms for all my people, both FU and NFU, and sent them to the armoury for the last 2 years. I am not allowed to do my own HR for my OOA, so I expected that PSF (who have handled my OOA) would have raised the form, and at no stage in my 2 lots of preps has anyone ever said that it would be my responsibility to reqest my own weapon - in fact sections here have nominated weapon authorisers, who must sign this form. When PSF were questioned, they claimed never to have raised an indent - ever!

Confused!

 

[Downsizer]

Anyways here PSF never submit an indent, the individual does, but it doesn't come from the Preps raised by PSF. The individual brings his prep form to the armoury saying where he is going etc and we then give him the forms to fill out to book a shooter for IPDT/ICRT. When we receive this form, which is sponsored by us, signed by an authorised person, we then prep the appropriate weapon.

Strange that you'd be given a pool weapon. We have them but they don't get issued to people doing IPDT, that would(should) raise alarm bells. At least it would here. My lads are taught to actively interrogate the customer, people are often not very clear in what they require from us, so asking a few questions early on, saves all of us a lot of pain later...

Gotta ask the question though why you never checked the weapon was getting sorted, especially as you're aware of the process....DT_Xtremez_17:

 

[muttywhitedog]

Gotta ask the question though why you never checked the weapon was getting sorted, especially as you're aware of the process....DT_Xtremez_17:

Why would I check on a process that I have performed 200+ times and expected my colleagues in PSF to be doing just as frequently? It never occured to me that I was the only one on the unit that might be using this form!

As the HR bod for my Wg, I am one of the few nominated "indentors" on my Wg. I therefore assumed(!) that there was one in PSF who handled the Admin Wg OOAs. When PSF booked me on IPDT in April and then gave me some preps, which included the Regt Flt, nobody said that I needed to visit the armoury in person and request a weapon. When the Regt signed them in May stating I had been booked on my mandatory courses, nobody mentioned that it was up to me to ask for my own weapon. Even the nominal roll that was sent by the rocks to the armoury (indicating who was deploying and who was merely on R2) failed to generate any alarm bells that I hadnt indented for a weapon. As this nomroll was sent and as it indicated who was going where, I assumed(!) that between PSF, Regt & Armoury, they'd realise that I was doing IPDT because I was deploying and therefore needed a weapon!

And I'm not the only one - 4 others on my IPDT have been zeroing pool weapons for their OOAs and will now have to spend additional time re-zeroing. As you can imagine, the rocks aint best pleased at having to re-train us either. But apparantly its all our fault because we didnt physically go to a place that our prep sheets didnt tell us to go to!

 

[ERT]

OOA Paperwork Part 2 has Stn Armoury on it.

 

[muttywhitedog]

OOA Paperwork Part 2 has Stn Armoury on it.

I'd appreciate it if you could tell me which annex/appendix to AP3392 Vol 2 Lft 1511 that is in, because it certainly isnt in the version used at my unit!

In case you were not aware, Lft 1511 is the preparation of indididuals earmarked for OOA.

 

[Sensible Head]

Muttywhitedog, it is great to hear you experiencing the frustration of inconsistent PSF advice at 1st hand, despite the knowledge that everyone is giving their best intention. The real question should be...Where else is my PSF inconsistent in its advice/procedures. I suggest 2 things:
A. Do you have an A1 Staneval clerk whose job it is to correct these differences?
B. Consider submitting a DAEMS Air Safety report to highlight the time being wasted by the current system and the inconsistency between units - this distraction from primary duties is one of those frustrations that should be captured via DAEMS (ask the flight safety officer).

 

[Downsizer]

Why would I check on a process that I have performed 200+ times and expected my colleagues in PSF to be doing just as frequently?

Because it's your own admin, and if it were me, I'd want to know that everything is ticked off. But thats just me, I'm not having a pop at you, just saying that knowing there is a process to demand weapons I'd have checked it was being sorted on my behalf.You can't be the only person going OOA from Wittering as an IA, yet somehow the armoury sorts them out....maybe there were one or two broken links in the chain in your specific instance. Not good either way.

 

[LilStill]

Muttywhitedog, it is great to hear you experiencing the frustration of inconsistent PSF advice at 1st hand, despite the knowledge that everyone is giving their best intention. The real question should be...Where else is my PSF inconsistent in its advice/procedures. I suggest 2 things:A. Do you have an A1 Staneval clerk whose job it is to correct these differences? B. Consider submitting a DAEMS Air Safety report to highlight the time being wasted by the current system and the inconsistency between units - this distraction from primary duties is one of those frustrations that should be captured via DAEMS (ask the flight safety officer).

The problem with that lies in that units not having a locally-added Armoury prep and/or who don't do the indents within Unit HR are not doing anything wrong. Therefore there is nothing for them to 'correct' or raise. The checksheet and DWR preps are issued centrally. Units - such as, clearly, 2MT - who have identified a better way of carrying out the preps, should submit these improvements to COS Pers Pol/doc sponsor so the rest of us are mandated to improve our process with them.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I believe that the armoury should be included on the 2nd stage preps and that the AP needs amending to that effect. No local procedures, no local forms for local stations. One standard for all.

Anyway, it was all sorted out amicably this morning. The rocks will zero us (again), and the Joining Instructions for IPDT have been amended to specifically state that deploying personnel are to make contact with the armoury prior to Day 1 of the course to ensure a personal weapon is put aside.

Thats of course as long as the right set of JIs are sent to the individuals by the Regt Clk!

And Downsizer, I take on board your comment regarding me checking, but having issued over 200 of these indents, I have never had one person come and ask me "Has my indent been submitted?" Indeed I might have been a bit miffed if someone had asked me if I was joing something that was part of my job!!!