Ooa And Public Holidays

[Realist78]

It works OK. There is a good query you maybe interested in where you can see your pre-boarding scores and grade. Worth 'a play' when you have time!

I take it that's open to everyone. How?

 

[True Blue Jack]

I take it that's open to everyone. How?

We've let the cat out of the bag now, haven't we? It's open to HR Administrators only, I'm afraid. A year ago it was only open to Unit Career Managers, i.e., Chf Clk. From what HS says we now have wider access, but I don't see that it will ever become generally available (Data Protection).

 

[MrMasher]

Surely thats wrong?
Why cant the general public view this too?
With data protection we are entitled to see these details. Surely its details about us?
Is it available to line managers, eg chiefs/flt sgts?
If not, it should be.
If the local desk drivers can view this info about me then I want to as well.(If I could get 5 minutes to get onto the JPA terminal!)

 

[Humble Scribe]

Calm down! It's not really as interesting as it may sound; the Chf Clk now has the tools to give you an indication of how you faired pre-boarding but can only compare your scores with the other personnel on your unit. He may now be able to say which of your appraisals are the stronger according to the pre-boarders and find out your grade without ringing the CM but as far as the actual promotion board is concerned there is no more information than there was under SAMA as far as I can tell.

 

[KingGuin]

Surely thats wrong?
Why cant the general public view this too?
With data protection we are entitled to see these details. Surely its details about us?
Is it available to line managers, eg chiefs/flt sgts?
If not, it should be.
If the local desk drivers can view this info about me then I want to as well.(If I could get 5 minutes to get onto the JPA terminal!)

You are correct to assume that under DPA you can see anything relating to yourself; thus Chfs and FS could see their own records but not anyone elses. The reason this info is available to Chf Clks etc is that, by virtue of their experience, they are better placed to interpret scores and assess your chances of promotion.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Also (I stand to be corrected) it is not possible to filter the results of the report to individuals, only to ranks and trade groups. The report therefore will give Chf Clks information on all, for example, sgt armourers on his unit. Under Data Protection you are of course entitled to know what the report says about you, but not about your peers.

Like HS says, it's not nearly as interesting as it first sounds, and to be fair will make as much sense to non-shineys as the schematics of a Typhoon engine means to me. Not a lot.

 

[MrMasher]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Drastic backpedalling methinks............DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Downsizer]

Back on topic, the 1 day in 9 rule for POL, does this include weekends? So for instance if I spend enough time away to qualify for say 15 days of POL, is it 15 working days (3 weeks) or 15 total days (inc weekends)?

 

[True Blue Jack]

Back on topic, the 1 day in 9 rule for POL, does this include weekends? So for instance if I spend enough time away to qualify for say 15 days of POL, is it 15 working days (3 weeks) or 15 total days (inc weekends)?

It's working days, i.e., Mon - Fri. That applies across the board to both daisies and shifties.

 

[WorsethanJPA]

Missing the point

Missing the point

Having just read Mar 07 Chf Clks bulletin it states that personnel who are OOA during periods of Public Holidays are NOT entitled to claim those days back with your POL on return to the UK.

The old PODL rules let you take it so why the change? The operational tempo has increased significantly in the past few years it would appear that we are getting yet another kick in the slats for deploying. If you have been OOA area for 4 months no-one is likely to miss you for a few more days.

Yet another policy decision made by someone who has never deployed!

After speaking to my protege, he has a valid point which has been missed by everyone on this forum.
In a nutshell, our bank holidays and Christian holidays are being 'downgraded' to just normal days. I accept that some people may miss the PH's althougher, but guys & girls a lot of us are still religious and find it offensive that this f@#king Labour government is pandering to the PC idiots who state that we we are no longer a Christian country but a multi cultural one!!! We are just asking that the PH's be recognised as what they are, not just another day on PDL.

 

[Realist78]

Also (I stand to be corrected) it is not possible to filter the results of the report to individuals, only to ranks and trade groups. The report therefore will give Chf Clks information on all, for example, sgt armourers on his unit. Under Data Protection you are of course entitled to know what the report says about you, but not about your peers.

Like HS says, it's not nearly as interesting as it first sounds, and to be fair will make as much sense to non-shineys as the schematics of a Typhoon engine means to me. Not a lot.

Oh really? a bit pre judgemental me thinks. You underestimate the intelligence of techies (not all, I'll give you that). Most people have a fair grasp on promotion matters, 6000s etc and can (in the most part) easily interpret information. As for (mentioned on a previous post) Chief Clerks being in the best position to ascertain an individuals promotion prospects? Even PMA give out duff gen frequently, I know of one (ex) Chief Clerk who gave out such drivel on supposed career interviews that he was a laughing stock to the camp's seniors but was taken at face value by the young lads. DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[True Blue Jack]

Oh really? a bit pre judgemental me thinks. You underestimate the intelligence of techies (not all, I'll give you that). Most people have a fair grasp on promotion matters, 6000s etc and can (in the most part) easily interpret information. As for (mentioned on a previous post) Chief Clerks being in the best position to ascertain an individuals promotion prospects? Even PMA give out duff gen frequently, I know of one (ex) Chief Clerk who gave out such drivel on supposed career interviews that he was a laughing stock to the camp's seniors but was taken at face value by the young lads. DT_Xtremez_09:

I underestimate nothing.

 

[Humble Scribe]

This is how it is then. The Chf Clk can now run a report under JPA that show the pre-boarding scores for each promotion board; for example Cpl - Sgt MT Techs. The results will show a combined score on how the pre-boarding cell have 'marked' the counting F6000's (3/4 or 5 depending on ranks) and you are also able to see the individual years scores (marked out of 10). The total you see is the total of all the reports added together which, presumably, are placed in order and according to the quota of the prom board are used to work out the A or B candidates. The A grades are then presented to the actual promotion board in alphabetical order for them to come to their own conclusions on who to promote. The pre-board scores then have no bearing on the actual prom board.

The actual use of this report to the Chf Clk is debatable. Whilst he can see who has been A graded from his own unit this has no bearing on whether they will be selected for promotion. On my own recent board, I received 5 points more on pre-boarding than a colleague but he was selected 3 places above me on the actual board! The only possible use I can see to the Chf Clk or the individual is that they can see which years reports are the stronger and thus whether you're heading in the right direction or not.

I wouldn't bother rushing to PSF on Monday morning either as these reports are only compiled just before the prom board, so unless your board sits next week there will be little value in seeing it.

Hope that clears a few things up.

 

[PSFbeatch]

erm actually.... i think you will find pre JPA for completing a four month det you would have got 9 days PODL (working days) and 5 ALA... which stands for accumulated leave allowance, which meant you were allowed to submit 5 days annual leave to run concurrently with your PODL. There was never any mention of taking public holidays...in lieu.

 

[True Blue Jack]

erm actually.... i think you will find pre JPA for completing a four month det you would have got 9 days PODL (working days) and 5 ALA... which stands for accumulated leave allowance, which meant you were allowed to submit 5 days annual leave to run concurrently with your PODL. There was never any mention of taking public holidays...in lieu.

What's this? Is this thread going back on topic? Saints be praised!

Since you mention it, pre-JPA the "Funcitional Standard" for leave taken after a 4-month OOA was 14 working days made up of 9 PODL (as has been said), the remaining 5 coming from public holidays actually missed topped up with annual leave. Functional Standard meant that an individual returning from OOA should expect to take that much time off before returning to work. This could (should have?) only be interfered with in the rarest of circumstances.

All this is irrelevant because it has not applied for 12 months. Happy birthday JPA!

 

[SgtScribbly]

Oh really? a bit pre judgemental me thinks. You underestimate the intelligence of techies (not all, I'll give you that). Most people have a fair grasp on promotion matters, 6000s etc

come on then realist, impart your knowledge on us and lets see what you really know then, and we will see how close the judgmentaling (just made that up) was.

Shal we start with promotion matters or F6000s? Perhaps you could run us through what JPA appraisal is going to do for us while you are at it. DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Boarderlyne]

Oh really? a bit pre judgemental me thinks. You underestimate the intelligence of techies (not all, I'll give you that). Most people have a fair grasp on promotion matters, 6000s etc and can (in the most part) easily interpret information. As for (mentioned on a previous post) Chief Clerks being in the best position to ascertain an individuals promotion prospects? Even PMA give out duff gen frequently, I know of one (ex) Chief Clerk who gave out such drivel on supposed career interviews that he was a laughing stock to the camp's seniors but was taken at face value by the young lads. DT_Xtremez_09:

Off Topic Not underestimating anybody's intelligence, just giving a fair assesment of how different our job is to the techie. Give me a spanner and tell me to fix that avionics system on the Tonka and I would be proper fecked! In the same way, we would expect a techie to run screaming for the hills, if we sat him down at a desk and told him to carry out a gate count on 300 bods.DT_Xtremez_34:

Everybody's trade is different. If you have had the nonce and the drive to investigate what the work is like in another trade, then good on you. But don't expect everybody to have the same knowledge level as you is all that we are saying.Off Topic

However, back on track. DT_Xtremez_28: Is there a derfinitive answer in JSP 760 about Public Holidays, during your OOA, being wiped off your leave balance if you are taking the new verson of PODL?

 

[True Blue Jack]

However, back on track. DT_Xtremez_28: Is there a derfinitive answer in JSP 760 about Public Holidays, during your OOA, being wiped off your leave balance if you are taking the new verson of PODL?

Public holidays are a nightmare on JPA. I'm not sure what the JSP has to say on the matter, but the Desk Manual goes into great detail about "Mass Update Absences" and how we need to create periods of 'Authorised Absence' for PHs.

That usually relies on the individual clearing the Authorised Absence by submitting his leave application for Easter or whatever. This was very difficult to achieve in the days before JPA. The alternative is for Unit HR to record the whole unit as on leave over those days; this also causes problems with those who have worked over the holiday. One of the lads in Bosnia had all his allowances stopped because his unit recorded him as being on leave over Christmas.

I would be very interested to learn how Sainsbury's manage PHs on their Oracle HR system.

 

[WorsethanJPA]

Public holidays are a nightmare on JPA. I'm not sure what the JSP has to say on the matter, but the Desk Manual goes into great detail about "Mass Update Absences" and how we need to create periods of 'Authorised Absence' for PHs.

That usually relies on the individual clearing the Authorised Absence by submitting his leave application for Easter or whatever. This was very difficult to achieve in the days before JPA. The alternative is for Unit HR to record the whole unit as on leave over those days; this also causes problems with those who have worked over the holiday. One of the lads in Bosnia had all his allowances stopped because his unit recorded him as being on leave over Christmas.

I would be very interested to learn how Sainsbury's manage PHs on their Oracle HR system.

TBJ,
Concur with what you are saying, the mass update process doesn't work anyway. What we have done here at my unit is inform all the personnel (especially singlies) via SRO's/Scrolling news articles etc several weeks ago to submit a hard copy leave (sorry absence) pass, so that the clerks can action them. This system has worked, as we did it over the Xmas period too, so far no complaints about food charges!!!!
We were told that come 1st Apr (today), JPA will automatically give everyone 9 extra days which equates to all the PH's over a year, however we'll have to wait and see tomorrow!!!!

 

[True Blue Jack]

We were told that come 1st Apr (today), JPA will automatically give everyone 9 extra days which equates to all the PH's over a year, however we'll have to wait and see tomorrow!!!!

It's a step in the right direction, I suppose, but people will still need to submit absence requests (I'm getting used to the terminology DT_Xtremez_30 to clear the additional days. I used to nag people like hell for it; after the tsunami in 2004 I thought I had a cast iron rod to beat them with, but there were still a significant number of people who just didn't bother.