Invalided from service but no compensation!?! Please HELP!!!

[chazza-23]

Hi All, I posted on here last year asking about med board processes...

I have since been invalided from service for the following reasons:
Low mechanical back pain
Degenerative discs L4/L5

Although my whole body should have been considered, due to 7 years of poor posture I have problems not only with my back but also my hips and left shoulder, basically my left side of my body is out of alignment with the right side and in my last few months in the RAF I was undergoing physio treatment focussed solely on my left shoulder.

I wont mention the job that I did in the RAF but it involved being unevenly loaded numerous times a day every day, bending, lifting and twisting, incorrect posture, incorrect manual handling etc etc.

This was what I did day in day out...I joined the RAF in 2002 and first went to the docs expressing increasing back pain in 2007, because it was a progressive condition rather than an accident I should be considered under both AFCS and war pension.

I received a letter from afcs stating their decision was not to award me anything due to the fact that my condition was degenerative and therefore not caused by service.

Just want to say I think the decision is bulls**t, I am 23 years old and the reason why my back has degenerated and the other problems that I have with my body is due to the job I did, thats why I was taken out of work for 22 months before I was invalided from service.

I do apologise for the long post but I just want you to have the full facts, I would really appreciate any one that can offer advice on what steps I can take to fight this decision...my opinion is that just because you cannot physically see something wrong with me like you would if I had lost a limb at war I don't think I should be discriminated against because of that. Like if I had lost a limb I have had to adjust my lifestyle massively and I think that just because my condition and reasons for the cause aren't glaringly obvious to an outsider that is not a good enough reason to not admit fault and award me properly to reflect that.

I just want what I deserve...please help!

Thanks in advance

 

[Obi Wan]

Im very sorry to hear of your injury. I have been out for too long to give you any Up to date Gen, But have you approached the RAFA or RBL? they have people who can assist you with any claims! Its just a thought. I really hope everything turns out OK for you.

DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[The Masked Geek]

I don't want to sound harsh but:

incorrect posture, incorrect manual handling

RAF's fault or yours?

 

[GEM]

I suggest you contact SSAFA or the RBL as suggested by ObiWan, they have experts and will advise you far better than we can. Good luck

 

[busby1971]

Evening

Evening

I only have experience of the WPS not AFCS but I have found that their first answer is always no.

I would strongly recommend a call to RAFA or RBL and seek advice.

Additionally get on the internet and find out if your degenerative problem could have been worsened or not helped by your service employment, you need all the facts to be able to argue your case.

The SPVA will not go out of their way to help you, quite the opposite normally, and it is important that you have all the facts to hand before you appear before any tribunial, again don't think that the tribunial are impartial, my wife's had an ex service doc as the medical expert, of whom he RBL paralegal reported afterwards, who belittled her until she forced him to admit a fact in front of the other members which gave her the benefit of the doubt.

Good Luck

 

[Vman921]

Got to agree with The Masked Geek on the incorrect posture and Manual handling side of the house but if you can prove that your injuries have been caused by your work practices then fight it.

The best gen has already been given ref RBL, RAFA, RAFBL, SSAFA.
You might want to fork out for a private doctor to prove your conditions were caused by the RAF working routine and not by anything else.

You have been in long enough to know that the MOD will do anything to get out of paying people so it might help if you talk to your local MP to help plead your case. The smarmy cnuts will do anything for publicity but it might have the added benefit of helping you win your case.

The best of luck to all and I hope that you get what you deserve in compensation.
DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[busby1971]

Tmg

Tmg

You are entitled to your opinion just as I am allowed mine, if you have no experience of leaving the service with medical complaint then you are probably not the best person to comment on this post. If you have been through the system then I appologise.

The system is currently set up, so it seems, to stop people getting what they deserve having been injured or made worse by their service. As I said earlier their default answer is always no unless the evidence is over-riding, this forces people to go through the tribunial service, this increases the stress of the whole process and is not a nice process.

The OP may have reason to suspect that his injury may have been agrivated by his service and if it has he may get further compensation, then again he may not. But at the end of the day he asked for help not hinderance.

 

[penfold93]

Gents this is welfare not the school playground please take it to pm if you want a vrtual fist fight.

The individual is after constructive advice so if you have none dont bother posting.DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[The Masked Geek]

The individual is after constructive advice so if you have none dont bother posting.DT_Xtremez_25:

You mean we should align our comments to the OP's preferred outcome?? DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[penfold93]

You mean we should align our comments to the OP's preferred outcome?? DT_Xtremez_35:

No I mean that your initial response was unneccessarily negative and should have been approached from a different angle that may have given the OP a better insight into your view point rather than the bsic gist was 'its your fault'

I agree that proving that the military has been neglegent wrt manual handling will be nigh on impossible to prove and that it is difficult to see how a job enforced such bad posture and had not been assessed by Occ Health or Occ Envirnomental Health. If you have concerns you should have raised this with the CoC.

The OP may have done all this and so will have plenty of supporting evidence, if they havent then things will be hard to prove.

 

[Oberon305]

I don't think TMG started off in an offensive way. His question, whilst blunt, was a fair one.

If incorrect posture is used and it's due to bad design of equipment, then yes, the service is at fault.

If incorrect posture is used and it's because the user is doing it in a way because 'It's ALWAYS done like that' then he's either been trained incorrectly in which case he MAY have a case, or he's using a shortcut and is therefore at fault himself.

I sympathise with people who get invalided out, especially at such an early age and I hope he gets some help, but I think everyone jumped on TMG a bit harshly!

Either way, if you can get money from the MOD, good for you!

 

[Manic]

I'll try and be helpfull (yes stop bitching at each other)

Read this:

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/361040A7-DF84-4E43-BD48-CC384F58760C/0/JSP765.pdf

Make a case. You have to prove why you deserve a pension. Your back got worse, due to carrying on working with a dodgy back? Then the RAF has made it worse.

Burden of proof is on you now, so make a solid case by learning the rules.

Get your medical notes, read them, use them to your advantage.
Get your notes by asking in your med centre if still in, else you have to send off for them.

I'm being pro-active with my medical discharge, and having read my medical notes, I have targeted my AFCS claim towards why I deserve a pension under the rules in JSP765.

The royal legion are a great source of help, they have advisors on the phone and people to go and fight at appeals tribunals for you.

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/

Note the free phone helpline.


Many people moan about SPVA, but during my discharge I had a welfare officer from them come round. He was the one who told me about invaliding, about getting discharged medically to get a service invaliding pension. No one else did until I got my medical board and touched base with the resettlement advisor. Again, the royal legion can put you in touch with the SPVA welfare dude for your area.

Chin up old spoon! you'll get there!

 

[Stevienics]

The hearty discussion aside, I am really surprised at this. I too have a degenerative disc (L3/4) and enjoyed pain with it from 88 right up untilt eh day I left in 96 (wasnt diagnosed until 91 though). I even did 6 weeks rehab (no, not that sort) to get me back up to A4 G1 Zi before I left (though I was medivaced for it shortly before).

All in all, no-one even hinted that I woud face the boot because of it. Can they change the standards with such consumate ease? Have the ven offered the OP treatment?

It's chronic, but not entirely debilitating and with the right exercise is easily managable.

(Oh and by the way, no they didn't offer us any formal training in lifting, nor any of the support items usually afforded people like airport workers - and I think I am barking up the right tree here)

 

[CC]

Some good advice from Manic; I would defo go to the RBL and see what they could do for you. Also, have you spoken with the Veterans people? http://www.veterans-uk.info/

Good luck mate, hope you get what you deserve.

 

[chazza-23]

Well hello all and thank you all so much for the feedback!

Today is the first chance I have had to look at the responces and I have to say I am impressed by most (not so much about the squabbling)

First off I would like to say I have been extremely proactive and yesterday and today I have been speaking to RBL and also to SPVA in attempts to try and resolve this.

Here comes some more info:

The reason I stated poor posture and poor manual handling is that due to the nature of my work I was unevenly loaded 2 or 3 times a day everyday this created poor posture - my left side of my body is out of alignment with my right hence why I also have a bad shoulder and hips, I was also expected on occasions of approx twice a month possibly more to contort my body in a way that does not comply with safe manual handling practice, this was by no means to cut corners...I had no other choice the job needed to be done and this was the only way to do it. Hence why I was taken out of work to protect from further injury! Hopefully this will go someway to satisfy the question made by the masked geek

Secondly I joined the RAF as a fresh faced 16 year old with no medical problems...otherwise I should have failed my entry medical and struggled during training. The condition stated degenerate disc L4/L5 basically means that due to constant poor posture/repitive strain my disc has flattened and bulged out, it is not heredetory or something that is common in 21 year olds (when I first had concerns about progressive pain)

I therefore ask the question; given the two statements above how can this be seen as degenerative changes and therefore not due to service when the reason for the degeneration was due to tasks associated with my job?

Situation is that due to me going through the medical discharge process I was automatically considered for AFCS and WPS, this is because it is a progressive injury and not an accident. (I joined in 02 (WPS) and went to the doc with the onset of pain in 07 (AFCS))

If it turns out that the WPS make an award, shouldn't the AFCS as well? I don't see how one can say it is attributable and the other says its not!

Finally after speaking to the RBL today there may be a case of negligence, not sure if and how I can proove this but I was referred to Cranwell for an assesment, the outcome was to put me on an RRU course...not sure if any of you have attended but it can be a tough slog if you are in a bad way. I requested an MRI before the 3 week RRU course because I wanted to know what was wrong to limit further damage on the course. They refused, I did the course and at the end of it I was in a worse state than before...during my discharge clinic I complained to the president of RRU Cranwell that it made me worse and it was only him that agreed I should then have an MRI...

My point is that I may have been in a bad way before I went but had I have had the MRI before the course the rehab instructors would have been properly informed of my situation and could have taylored the course to suit my needs and treat as an individual with a unique problem instead of as a group which was the case... or they may not of even put me on that course and I certainly believe my injury wouldn't have got worse.

Finally for my last few months of service I was receiving physio for my shoulder, which is pretty messed up due to the ill allignment of my body. I have not been given a proper diagnosis of the problem of this other than what the physio has discussed with me. Should this have been considered for compensation also as it is all relative?...I dont just have a bad back as it seems is the only problem according to AFCS

Thanks in advance and I will keep you updated

 

[The Masked Geek]

Hopefully this will go someway to satisfy the question made by the masked geek

Indeed, it clears up the ambiguity. Glad somebody had the intellect to see the question for what it was.

Hope you get a favourable outcome.

 

[Tashy_Man]

I know you don't want to say what job you did in the RAF but were you a Trade of one person ?

Has everyone else got the same conditions and been un-evenly loaded ? or made to contort thier body against H&S ?

 

[Soon To Leave]

WPS and AFCS are independent, which can work in your favour if one decides you aren't eligible.

Did you request to leave or did you ask to be retained/remustered? Requesting to leave could imply you volunteered. In the current climate the RAF will use any excuse to get rid of personnel at the minimal of cost including not extending engagements, not rescinding PVRs and medical engagements where the level of compensation is negligable.

The level of pension, if any, is based on your ability to work outside the RAF and your expected recovery. including an element of compensation for injury attributable to Service Life.

As this is a degenerative condition rather than an injury, they will have taken into consideration the likelyhood of you being in the same position had you worked outside of the RAF; at ASDA stacking shelves, for instance.

If your muscle/skeletal makeup of your back was predisposed to degeneration and it was reasonable for the RAF doctors not to be aware of it, you are not entiltled to compensation as it was a pre-employment health condition not attributable to the RAF.

Idenfication of a fault in RAF procedures may give you some form of compensation but not necessarily a pension.

And yes, Stevienics, they can change the levels as and when they choose as in the RAFFT. This also seems to extend to levels of compensation and redundancy terms prior to an AFR that will see m,any more of us hitting the street with smaller payouts.

 

[chazza-23]

Hi all

Another update for you:

Firstly it was not only me that was tasked with poor manual handling practices and being unevenly loaded, everyone was. Alot of people within my trade have had similar symptoms to myself, for example when I was at RRU Cranwell there was myself and 3 others from my trade on the same course. Iv also recently found out that another person from my trade has been medically discharged...again for a similar condition.

Secondly when I attended the medical board the President stated he had no choice but to make me unfit for further service, I asked if there was any possibility I could be considered for retrade but he stated no as I could not be awarded a minimum fitness level for any trade and I would be unable to fulfil my military duty.

Finally...I have received a decision from the War Pension Scheme, they have decided that my diagnosed condition: Degenerative Disc Disease of the lumber spine was caused by service and therefore attributable to service. They have awarded me with 20% disability and a small monthly payment.

I would now like advice from you all with regards to the following:

• How do they determine the % of disability
• Is there any way they can make consideration to the problems I have have with the mis-alignment of the spine, my hips and most importantly with my shoulder
• How can the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme say that my condition/injury is not attributable service but the War Pension Scheme admits it is, do you think I can fight the AFCS to admit this to an award me accordingly; its not that I'm not grateful to the WPS but it will take me many many years to save up the money that I may have got as a lump sum from AFCS. I just want the compensation that I deserve seen as my life has been turned upside down and my working ability is next to none
• My RAF salary was roughly £24k pa, working a part time job in civvi street will earn roughly 8k pa and thats if I'm lucky, is there any form of assistance for the discrepency between the two salaries?

I will again appreciate any advice that you provide and would like to thank you all in advance.

 

[busby1971]

Appeal it

Appeal it

Couple of answers in no particular order

The WPS and AFCS use a different degree of culpability, with the WPS if there is any doubt you will get a payout. With the AFCS you have to prove beyond doubt that the Service was at fault to get a pay out.

I would recommend appealing your percentage, if you could see your GP and get referred to a specialist this would help your case if he could justify you having a higher percentage of war pension, if you get it over a certain percentage you can then claim Mobility allowance and ALSO.

Again see a specialist and get them to confirm that your associated conditions are all linked, with this info you can then submit a claim for these additional problems. (your award paperwork should have mentioned if it has already been taken into consideration) Again if successful you may get into the additional claims spectrum.

The percentage award compares you to an average person of your age without your condition.

Hope this helps, my wife is still at the waiting for a couple of appeals to go through and an answer from the AFCS, not bad considering she left nearly 2 years ago, so far every time we have appealed we have won at the tribunials.

Good luck

Don't forget now you've got your war pension your medical pension should be tax free.