Hiroshima: Right or Wrong?

[Kryten]

US Secretary of State John Kerry has made a historic visit to the Hiroshima memorial in Japan, which commemorates the world's first atomic bombing. He is the first US secretary of state to ever visit Hiroshima, where around 140,000 were killed when the US dropped its atomic bomb in 1945.

This has apparently opened up a bit of a debate in the US: on the one hand the argument is that dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't justified; Japan was broken militarily, the use of the A Bomb was purely designed to stop Russia entering the war - with some even calling it a war crime.

On the other hand is the view that even though she was broken, Japan had vowed to fight to the end and the use of the A Bomb was thus justified in bringing Japan to its knees and negating the need for an invasion that would have been costly to both the US and Japan.

What do you think? Was the use of the A Bomb justified?

 

[ninjarabbi]

IMHO totally justified. If the Americans had not dropped the bombs they would have faced a massive loss of life in attempting to take the Japanese mainland. Secondly; Japan started it.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Justified. As Ninja said. It had the affect of ending the war quickly with minimal loss of life to our own and especially the American forces in the Pacific. Also it put Russia on guard with a visual warning if they ever made an effort to chance their arm and go all the way to France post Europe campaign.

According to the World at War documentary series (this is the only reference I have so far but if anyone else has 'facts' then please disclose) President Truman didn't make the decision to drop it easily.

 

[vim_fuego]

It also kind of usefully drew a line in the sand on usage. It allowed the whole world to see what a relatively small yield weapon could do and the after effects. Countries/Governments could transpose those results over a city of their own and play around with detonation heights and yield to draw conclusions on the just how difficult the decision would be to lob one at somebody else and get at least one back in return. No-one has dropped one since and WW3 has not occurred so although the loss of civilian life was terrible the results, beyond that of bringing WW2 [Pacific] to an end, have been invaluable in not tempting someone else to drop one.

 

[Max Reheat]

Would it have had the same effect on Japan had they dropped it on a non populated area of the country? Kind of like a shot across the bows.

 

[Stevienics]

We know it works and the carnage that was wrought. If not then, curiosity would have gotten the better of us somewhere else.

Incidentally, I read somewhere that of the fissionable material in the warhead, a piece about the size of a piece of chewing gum actually fissioned. This being the case, our minds coulf have been changed by happenstance.

 

[Kryten]

Totally justified. Why are we pandering this revisionist sh1t here?

I thought it would make for an interesting discussion topic.

 

[FOMz]

I'm pretty sure I know a part of the world that could do with a bit of that sort of action right now.. it might solve a few of our problems.. (whilst creating a few different ones)

 

[needsabiggerfuse]

This is a pretty sobering animation.

 

[Cake or Death]

At the time justified. The figure that the allies had come up with for losses on our side had we invaded were horrific. Add on the jap losses as well would of been staggering. I have heard the following quoted on various Documenties and read it in neumerous books. Extracted from Wikipedia,

During World War II, nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the estimated casualties resulting from the planned Allied invasion of Japan. To the present date, total combined American military casualties of the seventy years following the end of World War II—including the Korean and Vietnam Wars—have not exceeded that number. In 2003, there remained 120,000 Purple Heart medals in stock. The existing surplus allowed combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan to keep Purple Hearts on-hand for immediate award to soldiers wounded in the field.[6]

The "History" section of the November 2009 edition of National Geographic estimated the number of purple hearts given. Above the estimates, the text reads, "Any tally of Purple Hearts is an estimate. Awards are often given during conflict; records aren't always exact" (page 33).[1] The estimates are as follows:

World War I: 320,518
World War II: 1,076,245
Korean War: 118,650
Vietnam War: 351,794
Persian Gulf War: 607
Afghanistan War: 7,027 (as of 5 June 2010)
Iraq War: 35,321 (as of 5 June 2010)

 

[MontyPlumbs]

After Iwo Jima and Okinawa, the US realised that hundreds of thousands of civilians and US armed forces personnel would perish in any invasion of the Japanese mainland (Google 'Operation Downfall'). General Norstad, for example, estimated the campaign would cost the Allies 500,000 dead. Not only would the Allies have to figth a fanatical last stand Japanese military, but a hostile population who believed that the Emperor was 'god' and would live (and die) at his command.

The dropping of the A bombs may have been horrific, and on a civilian population, but the Japanese had done far far worse in places like Nanking, and they attacked the US in the first place, so who was ultimately to blame?

It's very unhealthy to be talking about things like this as 'war crimes'. WW2 was total war; war to the death, not a very nasty argument with lots of shoving and name calling.

Besides, you could argue the dropping of such horrific weapons on people probably has reduced that likelihood they will be employed again; especially now that they are infinitely more powerful and destructive.

 

[Johned]

Hiroshima: Right or Wrong? Your Message

Hiroshima: Right or Wrong? Your Message

They did'nt only attack the US in the first place but the British Far Eastern Empire. British forces were also being readied in 1945 to assist in the final assault on the home islands witness the assembly of "Tiger Force."

 

[Barch]

An uncle of mine was taken prisoner by the Japanese and was made to work down a coal mine not far from Nagasaki. He was in the guards and just over 6 foot 2 inches when he was taken prisoner, when he was released he weighed in at just around 6 stones.

He would have nothing Japanese in his house and up until the day he died he said that they should have carried on dropping the A bombs until the whole country was obliterated or the Japanese Government apologised for the atrocities their forces had inflicted.

 

[Molar Mob]

My dad was in the Royal Artillery in Burma. He despised the Japanese and I never had rice in our house until about 1955. One thing he could never understand was how their technology advanced. Their equipment during WWII was he believed basic but they advanced very quickly after the war. He always blamed the Americans who helped them advance. Maybe we should have the same thoughts, never trust a yank.

 

[Bellowyelly]

Importantly they did not capitulate after the first bomb, the second undoubtedly saved US and Brit lives.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

I thought it would make for an interesting discussion topic.

It does but I'm never comfortable with superimposing our belief system over events that happened under massively different circumstances to those we experience today. Its clear that the majority of goaters, coming from the background we do, agree that in the context of the time it was the right thing to do. Sadly however the intellectual junta that try to form people's opinions often lacks that same perspective and their opinions seem to come from a loathing of this, and our allies, past and to convince themselves that that are (and we should be) so much better than those nasty people who dropped an A bomb and killed thousands of people. They are wrong, we are not in any way better. Different yes. Better as people, no.

 

[Kryten]

It does but I'm never comfortable with superimposing our belief system over events that happened under massively different circumstances to those we experience today. Its clear that the majority of goaters, coming from the background we do, agree that in the context of the time it was the right thing to do. Sadly however the intellectual junta that try to form people's opinions often lacks that same perspective and their opinions seem to come from a loathing of this, and our allies, past and to convince themselves that that are (and we should be) so much better than those nasty people who dropped an A bomb and killed thousands of people. They are wrong, we are not in any way better. Different yes. Better as people, no.

Point taken - having read about John Kerry's visit I was interested to see if there had been any shift in opinion on the Goat; in no way was this an attempt to spread a revisionists view of the bomb - my personal view is that it definitely contributed towards the wars end.

Apologies if the thread has caused any offence to anyone - I won't start the planned thread for today entitled "the french - do they really smell of garlic and surrender at everything"?::

 

[propersplitbrainme]

Point taken - having read about John Kerry's visit I was interested to see if there had been any shift in opinion on the Goat; in no way was this an attempt to spread a revisionists view of the bomb - my personal view is that it definitely contributed towards the wars end.

Apologies if the thread has caused any offence to anyone - I won't start the planned thread for today entitled "the french - do they really smell of garlic and surrender at everything"?::

No at all mate, some people are OK revisiting events of the past, others aren't. I'm in the latter group.

 

[Kryten]

No at all mate, some people are OK revisiting events of the past, others aren't. I'm in the latter group.

Noted for future reference, and apologies once again to all.

 

[Gonterseed]

In my opinion it was right

It saved thousands of our Allies lives and our Tiger Force. The Japs started their war and imposed their rules to conduct it, they have to take the consequences. It doesn't matter about the politics. The strategy worked, end of...