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Hiding in the Ladies

Tin basher

Tin basher

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More bad PR. The inhabitants of the ivory towers who had better start fixing this and more importantly be SEEN to be taking action. Doris baiting has no place today, if it ever did, and the dinosaurs who perpetuate it need rooting out.
 
M

mullah lite

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Rocket_Ronster said:
Ah, vigilantyism.

I like it, where do I sign up ?
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Not at all, just behaving a little more like an adult in the late 20th-early 21st century. We have, I hope become a little less 'boistrous' on the whole. There's a place for sexist, misanthropic behaviour, but I'm scuppered if I can find it now. :)
Edit...

I wasn't suggesting a little 'contact counselling' behind the hangar, more a touch of disapproval from the grown-ups if required to keep proceedings acceptable to all.
 
Deltaitem

Deltaitem

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mullah lite said:
Not at all, just behaving a little more like an adult in the late 20th-early 21st century. We have, I hope become a little less 'boistrous' on the whole. There's a place for sexist, misanthropic behaviour, but I'm scuppered if I can find it now. :)
Edit...

I wasn't suggesting a little 'contact counselling' behind the hangar, more a touch of disapproval from the grown-ups if required to keep proceedings acceptable to all.
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Or perhaps, the military being a rules-based institution, is it too much to ask that the members actually obey the rules?
 
D

Downsizer

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mullah lite said:
Not at all, just behaving a little more like an adult in the late 20th-early 21st century. We have, I hope become a little less 'boistrous' on the whole. There's a place for sexist, misanthropic behaviour, but I'm scuppered if I can find it now. :)
Edit...

I wasn't suggesting a little 'contact counselling' behind the hangar, more a touch of disapproval from the grown-ups if required to keep proceedings acceptable to all.
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Having stamped out inappropriate behavoiur from a particulary nasty individual I can confirm that many grown ups are happy to turn a blind eye.
 
Stevienics

Stevienics

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Because convention now forbids such accusations being taken with a pinch of salt, I'd take anything that didn't come directly from the shop floor with exactly that.
 
D

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Stevienics said:
Because convention now forbids such accusations being taken with a pinch of salt, I'd take anything that didn't come directly from the shop floor with exactly that.
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Not sure I follow your thinking here?
 
Stevienics

Stevienics

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When was the last time any media agency reported that contrary to early expectations, there's really not all that much lechery and debauchment going on after all?
 
Tin basher

Tin basher

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Stevienics said:
there's really not all that much lechery and debauchment going on after all?
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Maybe but the perception certainly has changed what was tolerated in 1984 is not acceptable in 2024 society has changed hugely. For me in my 23 years in uniform I never saw or was subjected to any form of personal harrassment or bullying sexual or otherwise. Note this might be because I'm properly fugly. None of my troops ever reported to me that person X was harrassing them . Fast forward to my days as a civil serpent in 2010 era and its a different world where an unthinking comment, once covered by the word banter can now get you in hot water if the receipent is offended. It doesn't matter if you think its banter if the person is offended the error is yours.
 
Cornish_Pikey

Cornish_Pikey

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Tin basher said:
Maybe but the perception certainly has changed what was tolerated in 1984 is not acceptable in 2024 society has changed hugely. For me in my 23 years in uniform I never saw or was subjected to any form of personal harrassment or bullying sexual or otherwise. Note this might be because I'm properly fugly. None of my troops ever reported to me that person X was harrassing them . Fast forward to my days as a civil serpent in 2010 era and its a different world where an unthinking comment, once covered by the word banter can now get you in hot water if the receipent is offended. It doesn't matter if you think its banter if the person is offended the error is yours.
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Being offended for offence sake. Or offended on behalf of others that are not offended or choose not to take offence is part of the problem.

We seem to be the most easily offended generation in history. We get offended in response to what we assume about someone's words, intentions, or actions.

If you're constantly irked, irritated, offended, or upset by others (or even other "entities," such as a political group), that's a strong indication that you might benefit from changing your mindset rather than demanding other people change—or even apologize, for that matter.

We need to start focusing on the overwhelming amount of good things in the world rather than being in a permanent state of upset.

One thing I miss most about leaving the RAF is smiling and saying hello/good morning/good afternoon to passers by when walking around outside on camp. People have been indoctrinated that all other people wish them harm, no one engages and they all either stare at the floor or into the middle distance in oblivious ignorance. Smile at a passer by, it may be the only interaction they have all day.
 
Deltaitem

Deltaitem

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Tin basher said:
Maybe but the perception certainly has changed what was tolerated in 1984 is not acceptable in 2024 society has changed hugely. For me in my 23 years in uniform I never saw or was subjected to any form of personal harrassment or bullying sexual or otherwise. Note this might be because I'm properly fugly. None of my troops ever reported to me that person X was harrassing them . Fast forward to my days as a civil serpent in 2010 era and its a different world where an unthinking comment, once covered by the word banter can now get you in hot water if the receipent is offended. It doesn't matter if you think its banter if the person is offended the error is yours.
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I have to say that my service, and civilian experience was the complete opposite. I saw an absolute glut of abuse in my time in the RAF, physical, psychological and sexual. Very little of it was actually reported, because really, what would have been the point, nothing would have been done about it. The attitude was if you can't take it, you shouldn't be there, I didn't mean it, you're taking it the wrong way etc. And because the system in no way thought that the abuse was wrong, it was a green light for it to continue.
Switch to civvy street, and actions have consequences. Abusers are called on their actions, have to explain them, and crucially, have to own them. And maybe that's why since leaving the military in 1992, I've seen precious little workplace abuse.
In the real world, and it's slowly, very slowly sinking in with the military, abuse in all forms, including sexual harassment and bullying is as defined by the victim. That's the way it is, and it leaves the abuser with nowhere to run. When the military fully embraces this and stops blaming the victims, then maybe the page will be turned.
But I'm not holding my breath.
 
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Stevienics

Stevienics

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Deltaitem said:
I have to say that my service, and civilian experience was the complete opposite. I saw an absolute glut of abuse in my time in the RAF, physical, psychological and sexual. Very little of it was actually reported, because really, what would have been the point, nothing would have been done about it. The attitude was if you can't take it, you shouldn't be there, I didn't mean it, you're taking it the wrong way etc. And because the system in no way thought that the abuse was wrong, it was a green light for it to continue.
Switch to civvy street, and actions have consequences. Abusers are called on their actions, have to explain them, and crucially, have to own them. And maybe that's why since leaving the military in 1992, I've seen precious little workplace abuse.
In the real world, and it's slowly, very slowly sinking in with the military, abuse in all forms, including sexual harassment and bullying is as defined by the victim. That's the way it is, and it leaves the abuser with nowhere to run. When the military fully embraces this and stops blaming the victims, then maybe the page will be turned.
But I'm not holding my breath.
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When you say things like “civvy street” , it makes me wonder.
 
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