-
Welcome to the E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial RAF Rumour Network.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Fire Service NVQ's
- Thread starter skevans
- Start date
::/:
back to the thread......
Thanks Skevans.
We run an odd mix of NVQ and IPDS, though the 2 systems have overlapping similarities.
I just wondered how long it would take someone in the RAF to complete their NVQ as our jobs are a bit chalk and cheese.
Your people must struggle to meet all the PC's in their elements. Is this overcome by simulation?
Cheers fella.
back to the thread......
Thanks Skevans.
We run an odd mix of NVQ and IPDS, though the 2 systems have overlapping similarities.
I just wondered how long it would take someone in the RAF to complete their NVQ as our jobs are a bit chalk and cheese.
Your people must struggle to meet all the PC's in their elements. Is this overcome by simulation?
Cheers fella.
At present we have an odd mix of students, some reregistered after there original registration lapsed, and some who are registered and at it like a bull in a china shop straight from the off.
It generally takes around three months to complete each of the units, although candidates are encouraged to work on several units simultaneously. This is resulting in the average time to complete the award now standing at 14 months. (based on the last recording period, May - Jul 07)
One SAC completed the full award in 8 months including several units that had been completed OOA down South.
Now that we are an established fire authority in our own right, and on the back of the press we got from Fresco (Don't start
DT_Xtremez_25: !) Many stations now have local area agreements with LAFB and are responding over the fence. Also, the RAF firefighters in Iraq and Afghanistan are responding to over 200 call outs a month which also helps to provide more evidence of competence against the NOS.
These factors combined allow our SAC's to gain there NVQ's based on real time incidents, not simulation, Just as an example, I verified 4 units last night whilst on guard. Not one of those units contained a single piece of evidence from simulation. A quick glance at the seven units I have here to verify tonight also shows that there is no simulation involved.
Unfortunately as with so many things the NVQ scheme was implemented all arse about face in this trade. However after two years work to make good the damage of 8 years of empire building we are finally in an enviable position amongst the UK fire services.
It generally takes around three months to complete each of the units, although candidates are encouraged to work on several units simultaneously. This is resulting in the average time to complete the award now standing at 14 months. (based on the last recording period, May - Jul 07)
One SAC completed the full award in 8 months including several units that had been completed OOA down South.
Now that we are an established fire authority in our own right, and on the back of the press we got from Fresco (Don't start
DT_Xtremez_25: !) Many stations now have local area agreements with LAFB and are responding over the fence. Also, the RAF firefighters in Iraq and Afghanistan are responding to over 200 call outs a month which also helps to provide more evidence of competence against the NOS.These factors combined allow our SAC's to gain there NVQ's based on real time incidents, not simulation, Just as an example, I verified 4 units last night whilst on guard. Not one of those units contained a single piece of evidence from simulation. A quick glance at the seven units I have here to verify tonight also shows that there is no simulation involved.
Unfortunately as with so many things the NVQ scheme was implemented all arse about face in this trade. However after two years work to make good the damage of 8 years of empire building we are finally in an enviable position amongst the UK fire services.
M
merlin
Guest
AAH the trouble is that out here in the local authority the NVQ's have all but died, since the introduction of IPDS and the relevant role maps we now follow those and not the NVQ system. they are vertually identical however neither system allows you to bin unsuitable people!!
Anyhow glad to here that you are all alloud over the wire when requested as the more people the better!!
Anyhow glad to here that you are all alloud over the wire when requested as the more people the better!!
Some have, some haven't merlin. We're using a bizzare mix of both.
I'd disagree about binning crap candidates though, it's easier now than ever before to get someone binned.
I'm having difficulty with the concept of our trainees completeting their NVQ's/IPDS in 2-3 years were as RAF bods doing them in an average of 14 months and some completing them in 8!
Our jobs our so very different and from memory the RAF isn't that busy. I'm skeptical that the RAF chaps are not completing the full range of incidents.
I'd disagree about binning crap candidates though, it's easier now than ever before to get someone binned.
I'm having difficulty with the concept of our trainees completeting their NVQ's/IPDS in 2-3 years were as RAF bods doing them in an average of 14 months and some completing them in 8!
Our jobs our so very different and from memory the RAF isn't that busy. I'm skeptical that the RAF chaps are not completing the full range of incidents.
Last edited:
M
merlin
Guest
True when working at a busy station we had trouble getting our probies signed off! But then the whole system has been devalued by this government what with recruits in my current service only having to complete 12wks training and all.
Firestorm we are talking EXACTLY the same NVQ.
It's full title is NVQ3 emergency fire services operations in the community and it is the ONLY fire service operational NVQ available at the fftr level.
Make no mistake its the same.
I understand your doubts, afterall the RAF fire service you remember was vastly differet to what it is today, but let me make this perfectly clear. Our guys are qualifying in short time IAW the NOS and QCA guidelines from predominantly working jobs. I will happily come to your station over the next few weeks to talk this through more. (It's cheaper for a cuppa than the A40 services!)
One difference that we do have is that we have more time available to undertake the assessment process, and LFB is in my experience being very anal about its methods of assessment.
It's full title is NVQ3 emergency fire services operations in the community and it is the ONLY fire service operational NVQ available at the fftr level.
Make no mistake its the same.
I understand your doubts, afterall the RAF fire service you remember was vastly differet to what it is today, but let me make this perfectly clear. Our guys are qualifying in short time IAW the NOS and QCA guidelines from predominantly working jobs. I will happily come to your station over the next few weeks to talk this through more. (It's cheaper for a cuppa than the A40 services!)
One difference that we do have is that we have more time available to undertake the assessment process, and LFB is in my experience being very anal about its methods of assessment.
Last edited:
Unfortunately there is too much confusion regarding NVQ and IPDS. IMHO there is to much focus on both, with too liottle focus on either.
The two schemes are based on the National Standard, yet only the NVQ goes further and embraces the National Occupational Standard. IPDS is failing and unfortunately a few brigades will, if you'll excuse the pun, get their fingers burned.
There is a growing call for statutory exams supported with occupational competence from the NVQ in line with the NOS, yet little support for IPDS in whatever form your local brigade has adopted.
The DFS. As always they are trying to brand themselves as some sort of quasi local authority brigade and are trying desperately to meet all the requirements of the helix. The Government then has an example of how it can work, except of course that the DFS is different to every brigade, including my own.
The DFS are being forced to perform to IPDS just as a Government example, in my opinion.
Last edited:
M
merlin
Guest
The two schemes are based on the National Standard, yet only the NVQ goes further and embraces the National Occupational Standard. IPDS is failing and unfortunately a few brigades will, if you'll excuse the pun, get their fingers burned.
You are to late in your prediction out here in the local authority we did away with the exams which was a robust method to test knowledge, as was the Qualifiers exam taken after four years.
We are now having to sit ADC's a process decided by management phsycologists, it has no bearing on how good you are or how well you do at either NVQ or the IPDS helix, so concequently we now have the situation in my brigade area where nobody (apart from HR) has any faith in the system and the majority of those getting through are ****!!! oh to turn the clock back and re-enlist!!!
You are to late in your prediction out here in the local authority we did away with the exams which was a robust method to test knowledge, as was the Qualifiers exam taken after four years.
We are now having to sit ADC's a process decided by management phsycologists, it has no bearing on how good you are or how well you do at either NVQ or the IPDS helix, so concequently we now have the situation in my brigade area where nobody (apart from HR) has any faith in the system and the majority of those getting through are ****!!! oh to turn the clock back and re-enlist!!!
M
merlin
Guest
True enough so why am I trying to get into trainingDT_Xtremez_34:
DT_Xtremez_34:
M
merlin
Guest
Shift dodger ouch, no fed up with the tripe being turned out and mistakenly belive I could make a difference:S either that or I shall go insane.
Sorry, when I reread my post I could see where my meaning wasn't clear. I shaould have said that there is a growing call for a return to statutory exams
IPDS is a failing system, in fact the previous system fitted the IPDS helix better, but that's another debate
DT_Xtremez_25: The only failing I can see with the NVQ is that there is no monitoring to ensure the standards are continuosly met after qualification.
CPD?
I think the employers are using CPD to cover this.
Yes, but once again this is a failing of the service wide approach, it's very hit and miss. Most brigades are doing some form of recorded cpd, others aren't.