Fast track SNCO's

[R_Squared]

Whats with the FOM's FOA's etc? I mean what do they stand for and what do they do?

PFOM= Principal Flight Operations Manager. WO or sometimes FS IC all FOM's FOA's etc on a station.
FOM= Flight Operations Manager. A SNCO in charge of a section of FOA's either in a tower, station ops room or Squadron. In towers they are also a kind of Adj for the SATCO.
FOA= Flight Operations Assistant. (Cpls, SAC's and LAC's) General Dogsbody, found mooching about in Towers, Sqn's and Ops rooms. Now split into 2 streams. Fast Trackers (FOA ATC's only found in towers eligible to become Fast Track SNCO's) and standard FOA's both of whom can be found wherever a map needs folding or a cup of tea need making. FOA's also work in tower's alongside their FOA ATC Brethren who are ineligible to work on squadrons or in Station Ops rooms.

What do the fast tracked SNCO's do in these controlling jobs? I'd guess along the lines of shift controller?
I just had an image of lots of sac's and cpl's looking at scopes wearing headsets with SNCO's and zobs running em all!

The SNEC's and Zobs are the ones doing the Aircraft controlling. Sitting in front of the round tubes and in the Visual control rooms looking after the visual circuit and ground movements.
The Assistants Job in these towers is just that, to assist. There are far to many jobs to list here but a few that need doing in a tower such as, keeping weather and Pressure information up to date. Updating and adjusting the days movements, and liasing with ops and squadrons. etc etc etc.
They also man the Storno's and talk to all vehicle movements on the airfield and liase with the ground and tower controllers to keep things moving about.
The FOM in a tower or a Cpl or occasionally an SAC will also do all your driving permits, as they are the guys who use the airfield the most and have all the Gen about it. They are also the guys you are most likely talking to when you're out and about.
At my last tower, some guys asked what we did, so I showed them around. Explained a few bits and pieces and introduced them to the guys at the other end. Next time you go to renew your permit, ask if you can have a look about, it's usually no problem.
Hope this helps.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Now split into 2 streams. Fast Trackers (FOA ATC's only found in towers eligible to become Fast Track SNCO's) and standard FOA's found wherever a map needs folding or a cup of tea need making. FOA's also work in tower's alongside their FOA ATC Brethren.

Fantastic advert for the trade there r0jaws. Anyone reading this will think that FOA spend their life making tea. What bollox, none of my staff do that. For someone who is on JATCC and come through the ranks, your comments are quite offensive. What a great advert your opinions are.

I really hope that you succesfully pass JATCC and don't have to lower yourself by folding maps and makign tea.

You are making FOA ATC or ATCA as they are now know to be special, they are not, they just have a different career path. Everyone of the ATCA and FOAs are treated the same and have exactly the same responsibilities. Any prospective ATCA reading this will be of the impression that they are better than an FOA.

Standard FOA my fcuking arse

 

[R_Squared]

Fantastic advert for the trade there r0jaws. Anyone reading this will think that FOA spend their life making tea. What bollox, none of my staff do that. For someone who is on JATCC and come through the ranks, your comments are quite offensive. What a great advert your opinions are.

I really hope that you succesfully pass JATCC and don't have to lower yourself by folding maps and makign tea.

You are making FOA ATC or ATCA as they are now know to be special, they are not, they just have a different career path. Everyone of the ATCA and FOAs are treated the same and have exactly the same responsibilities. Any prospective ATCA reading this will be of the impression that they are better than an FOA.

Standard FOA my fcuking arse

SSH, whoa there fella. No offense meant! I was merely jibing at the stereotype of FOA's (regardless of whether they are fast trackers or not).
Everywhere I have gone, that is the image everyone has of an Ops/ ATC Job. We all know it is far from true.
FFS I have had a far more varied and interesting career so far as a 'standard' FOA than any Fast tracker is ever likely to have. I actually feel sorry for Fast Trackers as all they will ever see is Tower work during their 'apprenticeship'.
To clarify, I used the term 'Standard FOA' not in a derogatory way, but to clarify the difference between the 2 streams. As you are well aware a 'standard' FOA still does exactly the same training as an FOA ATC but they have chosen not to pursue a career staring at a round tube. There the difference ends as far as I am concerned.
I have never understood the rivalry between Ops and ATC, to me it has always been irrelevant. We are all the same team, the new system however does create a new division though which may only exasperate matters.
I can understand where you may have taken offense at my attempt at light hearted humour, but even if I fail this course I would still be proud to be TG9 and a 'standard' FOA.
Any potential ATCA who came to the conclusion that they are 'better' than an FOA would soon find themselves corrected, and to be honest I haven't met any who have thought that, or at least said as much in my presence, especially as a 'standard' FOA myself.
Finally, this post wasn't made with recruitment in mind. It was merely an attempt to answer a few questions posed about our trade by an existing member of the RAF. I admit that anyone considering joining the RAF in TG9 and decided to have a look at this forum to Gen up about it and read my post 'may' have drawn certain conclusions about the trade. But FFS anyone who genuinely thinks all we do is make tea and fold maps hasn't done their research properly.

 

[MrMasher]

Thankyou rOjaws for your reply. Now I know what all the peeps do I may pop in and ask for a general mooch around next time I get my permit done!

If SSH doesnt agree its up to him to perhaps reply with his angle on the trade/s and defend the FOA instead of rant? Just a thought like.........DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

I would wholeheartedly agree that you should come and have a look around. In fact I would encourage it. I did not rant, I was merely defending what could have given someone a bad impression of the FOA role.

I am sure if r0jaws was to re-visit his original post then he could see where I was coming from.

 

[You Can Call Me Al]

Fast Trackers etc.

Fast Trackers etc.

I've been away from these hallowed halls for some time and upon return see that nothing's changed ... DT_Xtremez_26:

My 2 pennerth - the last place we should be sending so-called fast trackers is a tower. They should be learning their craft in as many non-controlling environments as we can get them to in order to give them the sort of rounded education that the rest of us got over the years. Leave the tower training to the experts ;-)

Mr Masher has had some top advice from the peeps here - visitors are normally welcomed into all of the ATC areas (not just the tower). Tis a shame that more individuals don't do the same; especially the 2-winged master race.

Chaka - the only bit that was missing - disappointingly - was good, young, thrusting and extremely virile controllers

 

[The Controller]

I've been away from these hallowed halls for some time and upon return see that nothing's changed ... DT_Xtremez_26:

My 2 pennerth - the last place we should be sending so-called fast trackers is a tower. They should be learning their craft in as many non-controlling environments as we can get them to in order to give them the sort of rounded education that the rest of us got over the years. Leave the tower training to the experts ;-)

Mr Masher has had some top advice from the peeps here - visitors are normally welcomed into all of the ATC areas (not just the tower). Tis a shame that more individuals don't do the same; especially the 2-winged master race.

Chaka - the only bit that was missing - disapointingly - was good, young, thrusting and extremely virile controllers

Actually....I lost my virile when I was 16!

Now I've wet myself again....

 

[FOMz]

My 2 pennerth - the last place we should be sending so-called fast trackers is a tower. They should be learning their craft in as many non-controlling environments as we can get them to in order to give them the sort of rounded education that the rest of us got over the years.

Well said YCCMA, I've been of the opinion for a while that this should be happening.

 

[The Controller]

Well said YCCMA, I've been of the opinion for a while that this should be happening.

Now you've done it 'The Fomz'..... the shock of you agreeing with the aged ol' git has sent him into severe shock....his bag has just exploded!

Blimey...SSH will start being civil to Controllers next!DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[You Can Call Me Al]

Omigod

Omigod

Nurse!!

FOMZ - people will talk!

 

[Never Alert]

It sounds to me that you guys have a reasonable system in place for selecting SNCO ATC. There was a long period of time where anyone in TG12, who passed the OASC tests, would be considered for SNCO Weapons Controller.

As Not an IDO Yet mentioned in an earlier post, things are improving now & anyone who is interested has to be eligible for promotion to JNCO before being considered, not a bad thing in my book.

In fairness to those who were selected without meeting the new criteria, the course itself will weed out anyone who is not dedicated enough to keep their head down & work bloody hard for 9 months. That in itself shows some level of maturity IMHO.

Out of interest, do the ATC guys have to do the aptitude tests at OASC or, do you select in house?

 

[FOMz]

Nope, It may shock you to hear that I've got alot of respect for YCCMA, DT_Xtremez_34: .

Chaka on the other hand, still has the negatives, so I won't have a bad word said against him either (until he gives them back!) DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

It sounds to me that you guys have a reasonable system in place for selecting SNCO ATC. There was a long period of time where anyone in TG12, who passed the OASC tests, would be considered for SNCO Weapons Controller.

As Not an IDO Yet mentioned in an earlier post, things are improving now & anyone who is interested has to be eligible for promotion to JNCO before being considered, not a bad thing in my book.

In fairness to those who were selected without meeting the new criteria, the course itself will weed out anyone who is not dedicated enough to keep their head down & work bloody hard for 9 months. That in itself shows some level of maturity IMHO.

Out of interest, do the ATC guys have to do the aptitude tests at OASC or, do you select in house?

Always have been aptitude selected at OASC

 

[The Controller]

Always have been aptitude selected at OASC

Maybe, potential Controllers could visit the School (at Shawbury I believe? ) and be 'assessed' as to their suitability?

Standby....incoming...

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

What, just like the Navy with their grading system?

 

[The Controller]

What, just like the Navy with their grading system?

Woah!...getting radical now!

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

And they will be able to say, yes this bloke/doris has potential to do the job and not based on some computer tests?


WOW

 

[insideinfoman]

I've been saying for years that after TTF they should all wander down the road to the Hallowed Halls of CATCS and get a few lessons on the basics of controlling. Then spend a couple of days in the Sims putting it into practice.

After all they are the experts and would be able to grade them for appitude and abiltily for controlling before sending them on to the Stations.


The FOA(ATC/ATCA) are able to go to RADAR Units to help further their understanding of controlling and not be stuck at 1 place for 3 - 5 years before getting JATCC.

DT_Xtremez_30: DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[FOMz]

Hang on, somethings not right here - we all seem to be agreeing.

 

[tommo9999]

How hard can it be to learn how to scare birds away? You need selection for that??????