Engineer - Aircrew contracts

[Mighty_Wokka]

Down in Wokka land we have already entered into a new era with the supposed signing of a contract between us and the aircrew. It basically says we have to provide so many cabs per day plus spares and the aircrew agree to only plan / fly those allocated. This in the midst of the new high useage program which sees the cabs flying all day long with running crew changes etc. It seems to have backfired down here as 80% of our work is now between 01:00 - 08:30. Our shifts have changed accordingly but it means 3 out of the 5 week rotation are nights/evenings. Plus working the weekend has become the norm meaning one shift works 2 weeks straight more or less.

Anyone else had experiences of these business type arrangements which seem to be creeping into our military world.

 

[Bitburger]

Aircrew/Engineers contract, it is all W@nk. We are a fighting Force not a Fcuking management consultancy firm. All this modern management speak makes me puke. I notice from the shifts they are expecting you to work the one thing they have not brought in from Civilian firms is Work/Life Balance.
What are THEY doing to our Airforce? DT_Xtremez_08:

 

[budgie]

The swamps are doing something similar, 'Pulse Flying'. Great for them, but as you say, most rec's done over night.

 

[Rigga]

Thats Life in civvy street! - During the day anything that can be repaired simply, is done, or it may be possible to be deferred for later.
Most scheduled work and defects are done at night, when all the drivers and SLF marshallers are getting their circadians done.
Generally. only Hangar checks work full shifts both day and night.

Unfortunately for you guys, your Drivers and SLF like to play with night toys too!

I believe your "contract" is flawed by being driven only from the one end - Your Engineers don't (and probably can't) decide on anything that happens until a scheduled stop is mandated by the lack of extension space (and then Contingency Servicing can be introduced!)

The result of this folly can only be ground staff running ragged trying to catch up with the maintenance and subsequent increase in unscheduled downtime.

Your only outlet is that your contract (indeed - ANY contract) cannot state the duration of unscheduled stops for snags.

So the crews must then suffer a percieved "lack of quality" from engineers, as their controllers struggle to get manpower from teams, working permanently to provide aircraft for the contract, to divert to this unscheduled stop. Having worked on Chinnys for ten years this may mean getting various large items into wagons and then moving to some inhospitable area to work in, too.

In the end; The "Loss" of a helicopter from the crews POV is down to Engineering problems - not their one-sided "Contract".

 

[propersplitbrainme]

Down in Wokka land we have already entered into a new era with the supposed signing of a contract between us and the aircrew.

Hmmmm, I wonder who might have 'signed' this contract then? Bet you guys never got a sight of it and it was done on your behalf.
Snag is, you're the ones who have to make the techies side of the agreement work DT_Xtremez_38:

 

[sausage2]

I have never heared such complete b0llocks in my life. What are we expected to do to honour the contract? Let them go flying on a plane that is U/S just to keep the contract . Surely even our 2 winged master race can see that such an idea is impracticale at best, and suicidal at worst.



.

 

[Mighty_Wokka]

I have never heared such complete b0llocks in my life. What are we expected to do to honour the contract? Let them go flying on a plane that is U/S just to keep the contract . Surely even our 2 winged master race can see that such an idea is impracticale at best, and suicidal at worst.
.

In a way yes. Snags are carried from crew to crew all day. If you're lucky you'll get a good jocky who will pass them on so you can get some kit ready for when it finally stops flying - but this is not always the case. Oh and ours are a 6 bladed master race

Cont ops...dont you just love it DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[ExCrab]

I bet they drafted in an outside company, incidently run by an ex-zob, to come in and draw up said contract. And to cap it off, the spineless upper engineering management sign it, and shaft the shopfloor boys cos they don't want to screw up their next promotion/career.

Remember Self-Supervision, Lean, etc etc..........Just because things work in civilian industry, doesn't mean they will work in the military, no matter how much you *******ize them.

 

[Bluntend]

Can somebody please tell me why 'we' constantly sell ourselves short and look to industry for the 'fix' when the situation isn't broken?

The Royal Air Force has been engineering military aircraft for longer than any other airforce in the world and have considerably more experience of fixing aircraft than industry. Why do our lords and masters presume that industry know how to engineer an ac better than us? Some elements of industry are now even begining to mimic the way we used to do things - 'Operations Rooms', for example, providing the same function as the old Eng Ops Sqns we used to operate.

The whole idea of a contract between aircrew and groundcrew is pathetic !! They fly the aircraft, we fix them. The only contract you need is the one you signed when you joined up - ie maintain the highest standards in all that you do, engineering or otherwise, no debate, you either do it or you get charged. If the jets fooked, then it doesn't leave the ground (unless on jacks) until its fixed again. If that means that Wg Cdr Chumbly-Warner doesn't get to punch holes in the sky on a Friday afternoon then so be it. Better to miss out on a trip than have your last one ended by punching a big hole in the ground.

DT_Xtremez_25:

God I'm p!ssed off today!! Right, rant over.

 

[ChocMonster]

24 Hour running

24 Hour running

Down in Wokka land we have already entered into a new era with the supposed signing of a contract between us and the aircrew. It basically says we have to provide so many cabs per day plus spares and the aircrew agree to only plan / fly those allocated. This in the midst of the new high useage program which sees the cabs flying all day long with running crew changes etc. It seems to have backfired down here as 80% of our work is now between 01:00 - 08:30. Our shifts have changed accordingly but it means 3 out of the 5 week rotation are nights/evenings. Plus working the weekend has become the norm meaning one shift works 2 weeks straight more or less.

Anyone else had experiences of these business type arrangements which seem to be creeping into our military world.

Well, all day and all night is how it has always been done in the world of the Mighty Albert.DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[copter-doctor]

Well, all day and all night is how it has always been done in the world of the Mighty Albert

Understand what your saying there but Lynehams also always been a 24hr unit. In wokka land the rest of the unit knocks off as usual so there is no support throughout the night when you are doing most of the work!!!!DT_Xtremez_08: Even the stackers knock off by 3am so if you don't get your demands in by then you can't get the bit'sDT_Xtremez_35: The food spoilers knock off so there is no grub and even eng ops is not manned 24hrs????? Now do you see the problem? The guys work their A***S off but have no other support.

And they wonder why you can't keep to this wonderful contract they have signed up for on our behalfDT_Xtremez_30:

 

[mightyhunter]

Understand what your saying there but Lynehams also always been a 24hr unit. In wokka land the rest of the unit knocks off as usual so there is no support throughout the night when you are doing most of the work!!!!DT_Xtremez_08: Even the stackers knock off by 3am so if you don't get your demands in by then you can't get the bit'sDT_Xtremez_35: The food spoilers knock off so there is no grub and even eng ops is not manned 24hrs????? Now do you see the problem? The guys work their A***S off but have no other support.

And they wonder why you can't keep to this wonderful contract they have signed up for on our behalfDT_Xtremez_30:

simliar to when i was @ ice station kilo but we were lucky in that each shift had a duty stacker so you didn't have to wait 'til morning for ESG to open.

 

[goatblower]

Why dont you do what any self respecting 'company' would do...get a high priced lawyer to go over said 'contract' and pick it to pieces. you might find that what it actually reads is' fcuk off growbags, no you cant have that cab, and fcuk off again'

 

[alberts nose]

Yet more commercial orientated crap to go along with;
'mission statement: to provide.... '.
'customer'. Who is the customer in the end, not the aircrew as they work for the same company, but in a different department.
ID cards worn on tags.

we are getting more and more like a company so we may as well have a federation.
Or a vote of no confidence in the managers by the work force or shareholders.

A. N.

 

[BigNose]

I have actually seen a top secret memo suggesting the removal of rank badges. Instead you will have your first name on a badge and will get a gold star every time you are a good boy.
Also they are going to introduce "dress down Fridays" which means you can wear your dark blue shirt that is 12 years old and has been washed so many times it is nearly see through.

 

[Offeh Kitt]

Yes....mission statement....

Yes....mission statement....

Yes, I can remember my absolute delight at hearing that the first thing that my new Station Cdr at Ice Station Kilo thought would help the plight of the boys working out in the desert heat in Seeb and Basrah, with a lack of spares and equipment....was to add the words...'and surveillance' to the RAF Kinloss mission statement, and then tell us about it in a sweaty tent just after mid day when i had just finished a full 24 hour shift 30 minutes before hand.......' any questions?' he asked... I cannot say I had any as i thought that.. 'can i go to bed now you useless tw@t?' may not have gone down well.... ho hum....onwards and downwards.... in a long never ending spiral....... new Stn Cdr soon! new broom sweeps clean! lol

 

[Mighty_Wokka]

Seems the Big wigs are coming down to Wokka land this week. We have 'apparently' set the standard for the rest of the RAF to follow.

Oh dear and you all thought it was bad already, sorry fellas the days of techies on Squadrons are coming to an end. Prepare to join the new engineering super wing with no identity, no history, no morale and no interest.

 

[Rigga]

How about an Aircrew Mess and a Ground Crew Mess? That should improve morale and communication?

 

[ROTORHEAD]

Lets face it Wokka, the green clad self loading freight, have never liked the idea that the people who fix their aircraft, are actually part of their Squadrons (Flying Clubs). And thats on both Fixed and Rotary.

 

[The Panther]

Mesf at Odiham is now being run by DARA, Boeing took the contract to run Mesf( or DSU as it is now called) and sub contacted to DARA. So my boss is now a civviy, all work carryed out has to go through him, including sqn support. Its a bit of a mess , as they have not fully sorted out the contract. Who knows what will happen? Raf Odihams techies have no identity anymore, with Sqns becoming EXCES, CASF gone to fleetlands and now MESF going part civvies. No ones safe ,as i think this is what will start to happen to other camps soon.

So now i find myself being Employed by Boeing, work for DARA and paid by the RAF. I feel more like a civvie theses days than a serving member of the RAf.

What can you do ?