Employment Law Advice - 1 months notice?!

[Mag2grid]

Fellow Goaters, I need your help/advice.

Background
- Failed phase 2 training,not given a second chance at the course, opted not to go for another role. Handed my letter requesting to leave the service back in November. During that time I found myself a civvy job who are waiting for me to start.
-Due to paperwork/people being off my discharge is a long way off (not inc terminal leave and my normal acrewed leave).
-Civvy job have now said they will wait until the middle of January 11 for me to start then withdraw my job offer.
-So far it has taken 7 weeks to see/sign my first disclosure (through no fault of P1, hold up with legal/casework seem to rule everything, every stage seems to have to be reviewed by legal!). I am told there is still another 5 stages before I get my final disclosure to sign and then they can get the ball rolling with getting out.

Problem
-I need to leave to start this job and need advice if there is anything I can do that wont cost me a normal discharge (ie no failing CDT, anything that might find me with some time in MCTC).
-I have been told by some lads in the mess that I could just give Harry Stash 1 months notice and be on my way (I do have 23 days acrewed leave. Any truth in this? My ToS do say my offer of employment is provisional on completing phase 2 training, and as they have opted not to allow me a second shot at phase2 trg, is this grounds to consider they have broken my ToS offered?
-I've already cleared from station, I'm just waiting to sign off.

Any constructive advice is welcome.

 

[Downsizer]

If you've cleared from the station presumably you aren't going to work at the station anymore....if so just start the job? Or am I missing something...

 

[Mag2grid]

I've signed off everything apart from stores and accounts flt.

My issue is I havent signed anything that says "mag2grid your last day of service will be [date]".

 

[propersplitbrainme]

I have been told by some lads in the mess that I could just give Harry Stash 1 months notice and be on my way

This is one of those instances where it would be wise NOT to listen to the barrack room lawyers in the mess.
Have you tried speaking to your Flt Cdr? Its often a good place to start.

 

[Realist78]

Have you been to the Chief Clerk recently and explained the situation?

 

[True Blue Jack]

Or am I missing something...

Yes. M2G would be breaking Service Law if he were to take up alternate employment without the requisite permission. Permission which is almost always granted unless the work is in one of the few barred industries, e.g., security, or the employer is a foreign government but even so it's not worth the risk.


M2G, the delay so far is because of all the boxes that have to be ticked when the RAF are looking to get rid of you. Cmd Legal are involved at every stage of the process because the last thing the RAF needs is a high-profile case for unfair dismissal and they would rather pay you for 6 months' gardening leave while they check and re-check everything than face that PR disaster.

Speak to your Unit HR on Monday and apply for permission to seek off-duty employment. If that doesn't work for whatever reason you have the option of driving your own discharge by effectively submitting your PVR (the letter you signed in November doesn't count). Because you have not entered productive service you are not subject to the normal waiting times (6 months) and you could have your P45 for Christmas. OK, a slight exaggeration but you will certainly be free to join your new employer by mid-Jan.

 

[busby1971]

My personal opinion

My personal opinion

Personally I'd clear those last couple of places, submit and application as above, and start the job and then wait for the call to say you've left.

If your new employer asks for your P45 then just tell it takes about 6 weeks to come through (which it probably will do to be honest).

Have you popped in to the Padre's to tell him how stressfull this situation is and you just want to get on with your life.

 

[Tin basher]

Have you tried speaking to your Flt Cdr?

Have you been to the Chief Clerk?

Have you popped in to the Padre's?

All good advice. It would be most unwise to listen to and act on hints and tips from "mates". There is a system, you don't have to like it or agree with it just accept it's there, and it's protocols should be followed. As TBJ says there are potentially quicker ways, but they all have one thing in common they follow the rules.

 

[Mag2grid]

Cheers for all the good gen lads/lasses.

I've been dealing directly with OC P1 as I dont currently have a flt cdr.

The advice about just doing one and going on the remainder of my leave did seem a little too good to be true.

Unfortunately like most places the stn I am at stood most people down on Friday, the only ones around are civvies, and none of them work in PSF/P1.

Like I said I have no dramas with how its being handled at stn level, OC P1/staff have been great and I know they are trying hard to get me squared, its frustrating to think I could loose out on this defo offer of employment.

Is the request to leave the service not the same as PVR-ing then?

 

[rest have risen above me]

If you've got til mid Jan I think that you'll probably make it with a bit of legwork on your part. Although the situation is slightly different one lad up here who was airman without a jet to fix pressed the PVR button on a Monday and was starting his civilian employment on the following Tues. Like I say the circumstances are a little different but it shows that it can be done.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Is the request to leave the service not the same as PVR-ing then?

In your case, not exactly. Although you have declared discharge to be your preferred option following your withdrawal from training it's not quite the same as leaving the RAF at your own request.

The Christmas Grant doesn't actually start until next Friday and if your PSF really has shut up shop completely then I would suggest that somebody needs to cancel a day's leave. If all else fails the duty clerk or orderly officer will be able to call in the right people - they might moan a bit but this is your future career we're talking about, not a day's Christmas shopping.

 

[PingDit]

I've read all the good advice above. However, if I were you I'd:

1. Inform the new company that you will be taking up the offered position by the date requested.

2. Write a letter to P1 (by recorded delivery) informing them that you are handing in your one-month's notice. This is acceptable under UE law. As you are paid monthly, one months notice is all that is required, end of. I know people who have done the same. The RAF are extremely loath to push against this and everyone I know who's done it by this route has got away with it. In the same letter, explain that you are doing all transactions via P1 as you don't currently have a Flight Commander and have been unable to seek further guidance. By doing this, you'll have given yourself a 'get out of jail free' card because you've effectively been left in the lurch (duty of care etc.).

3. Leave.

Good luck matey,

Ping

P.S. If any adminer's know ANY differently please let us all know as soon as possible. I do understand that the above method does work but that the RAF don't like it being broadcast to the us RAF underlings. Still, after 39 years; what do I know?

 

[True Blue Jack]

I've read all the good advice above. However, if I were you I'd:

1. Inform the new company that you will be taking up the offered position by the date requested.

2. Write a letter to P1 (by recorded delivery) informing them that you are handing in your one-month's notice. This is acceptable under UE law. As you are paid monthly, one months notice is all that is required, end of. I know people who have done the same. The RAF are extremely loath to push against this and everyone I know who's done it by this route has got away with it. In the same letter, explain that you are doing all transactions via P1 as you don't currently have a Flight Commander and have been unable to seek further guidance. By doing this, you'll have given yourself a 'get out of jail free' card because you've effectively been left in the lurch (duty of care etc.).

3. Leave.

Good luck matey,

Ping

P.S. If any adminer's know ANY differently please let us all know as soon as possible. I do understand that the above method does work but that the RAF don't like it being broadcast to the us RAF underlings. Still, after 39 years; what do I know?

Ping,

There is no EU law about maximum notice periods, only minimum and people have been misinterpreting that law for years. People have been able to get out more quickly than the published waiting times but only when it suits the RAF to let it happen and for every person I know who has got out more quickly than the published norm I know another who has been made to wait, even with a finite job offer.

Of course, this is a good time if you want to leave and different rules apply to trainees anyway so M2G will be just fine without needing to write any letters.

 

[busby1971]

Contact

Contact

Can't believe I'm being in agreement with TBJ twice in one day but a contract is a contract, if you break your contract then you will be liable to be taken to court for compenstation. If you are looking at getting a reference from your previous employer then this might not be the best thing to do.

Now that I'm in the civi world I can confirm that contracts can specify any period of notice and if you're not happy with that then don't sign.

 

[Soon To Leave]

Whilst you have declared discharge to be your preferred option, the RAF, in theory can exercise any available option therefore until you receive the necessary paperwork you cannot legally assume this will be the course of action even if it is the most likely.
The RAF invariably allows leavers to go asap if they have a firm job offer so I would accept the offer as the mechanism will jump back into action after the New Year as everyone returns.

Good luck in your new employment.DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Mag2grid]

Cheers for all the gen so far.

My main worry is that I will put this letter in, and in 4 weeks time once I've gone from stn, used up all my leave (by that time it will be pushing on 4 months since I requested to leave) I get a call telling me its still not sorted, i've relocated the family back to the Devon and the RAF demands I come back and see out the time until they decide to process this with some urgency.

 

[Realist78]

Cheers for all the gen so far.

My main worry is that I will put this letter in, and in 4 weeks time once I've gone from stn, used up all my leave (by that time it will be pushing on 4 months since I requested to leave) I get a call telling me its still not sorted, i've relocated the family back to the Devon and the RAF demands I come back and see out the time until they decide to process this with some urgency.

You need to be on the starting blocks 1st day back and do some door knocking etc. Also, a stress related trip to see the Padre might be in order.

 

[Stevienics]

I might also be tempted to do 2 things:

1. Get in contact with the HR department of the new company and tell them the wheels are irredeemably in motion to leave the mob (a little guilt tripping goes a long way with HR in my experience) and also where you are with the exit process - as this will give em the warm and fuzzies that you are going to actually show up. Paperwork helps.

2. Same for your new boss, but ask what you might do to expedite the induction process so as to hit the ground running when you turn up on the first day - this will alo mark you as a good all round egg and puts roots down that are harder to pull up.