Does the RAF rank structure work?

[penfold93]

Read an interesting opinion article here about whether we should be looking at changing the military rank structure in the armed forces.

Personally I dont think its much of an RAF/Navy issue but I have found some of the Armys rank idiosyncrasies bemusing with specific Regts having a totally different system to the normal army.

Yets are we degrading tradition if we get rid of them?

The suggested new rank structure at the end of the article is also worth a look at.

 

[vim_fuego]

By coincidence I was trying to explain to the eldest sprog why people I the military salute each other...You know when kids just keep saying 'but why?' after you burrow down deeper and deeper into your knowledge? Well at around the 4th 'but why?' I had to admit that I really couldn't say anymore...we just did out of tradition.

But why?

 

[FOMz]

I subscribe to the medieval version that it comes from knights raising their visors to show they were friendly and as a sign of respect.

saying that though... I'm pretty sure Squires used two fingers.. especially behind the knights back

 

[busby1971]

Could probably do with one less officer rank, an extra private rank to reflect a higher level of training (technician anyone) and merge the SNCO grades into a single sergeant.

Of course all the above would then need better career management and open, and fair, application for and assessment for promotion.


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[penfold93]

Would a flatter rank structure and more bands be an effective solution or does a higher salary equate to a higher rank?

 

[techie_tubby]

The proposed RAF rank structure for non commissioned is exactly as it is now but with a different rank slide for SAC (Senior Air thing or whatever he calls it)

 

[Downsizer]

Get rid of CT?

 

[Late & Tired]

Get rid of CT?

Nooooooooooooo
2yrs of that = FS Pension...?

 

[Late & Tired]

I seem to remember something from the distant past, which was that saluting a commissioned officer was actually paying respect to the Queen.

Best I saw regarding a rank was when I was walking with a group of WOs and one failed to salute a Pilot Officer as his rank slide was so thin on the shoulder. The enquiry from said PO was why he didn't salute him, to which the reply was, "I was unsure whether to Salute it or floss with it"!
Oh dear.

 

[busby1971]

Would a flatter rank structure and more bands be an effective solution or does a higher salary equate to a higher rank?

I think you’ve got to accommodate the peculiarities of military life, easy to identify who is charge and all that.

I do like the comment about not accepting managing people through direct orders, correctly managed and led teams should only need the odd nudge in the right direction every now and then to be high performing.

Here’s a radical thought, how about only having a single continuous spine from AC to Air Chief Marshall, with the option to join at 3 entry points, AC, SNCO and Flt Lt, with no reason why an AC with the right potential could reach the top role.


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[Downsizer]

Nooooooooooooo
2yrs of that = FS Pension...?

Does that even apply on the new PS?

 

[Late & Tired]

Does that even apply on the new PS?

That's a good point.
I'm unsure of the new PS effect, but was just being mercenary in terms of the 75 scheme.

 

[briggfairy]

I do like the idea of someone being able to join up as an AC and reaching the top, I also think that with all basic training being moved to cranwell a standardised basic course would be of benefit with the top performers at phase II training being 'creamed off' as happens in flying training to move into the next entry point.

I would also suggest that people would only be able to spend a maximum of 6 years / 3 posting max at each rank until they are either promoted or leave. this would of course mean that promotion would have to be better assessed and would be less 'service needs' and more personal ability based

 

[Oldstacker]

It certainly used to be possible to join as an AC and reach very high rank, someone on my entry at Swinderby certainly reached Air Rank (AVM?) having commissioned about 5 - 6 years in...... Can't remember his name off-hand though.

 

[Barch]

It certainly used to be possible to join as an AC and reach very high rank, someone on my entry at Swinderby certainly reached Air Rank (AVM?) having commissioned about 5 - 6 years in...... Can't remember his name off-hand though.

A lad I joined with also reached AVM, he took his commission after 6 years in the ranks.

 

[ktuludays]

It certainly used to be possible to join as an AC and reach very high rank, someone on my entry at Swinderby certainly reached Air Rank (AVM?) having commissioned about 5 - 6 years in...... Can't remember his name off-hand though.

Sir

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[Kryten]

Not sure I like the term "aircrafter" and "senior aircrafter"....

 

[gray]

Not sure how legit this but it might be a good idea: Get SME's in from industry who actually know what they are doing (hopefully).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/09/army-break-tradition-recruit-civilians-senior-ranks/

"Army leaders will be recruited direct from the civilian world rather than rising up through the ranks, under a proposed overhaul to bring in specialist skills for 21st century warfare.

The plan to hire straight into the regular Army’s middle and possibly even higher ranks will overturn generations of tradition and a career structure that has seen leaders work their way up from the bottom.

The British Army is considering hiring direct from industry and the boardroom to get civilians who have already had established careers in areas like cyber technology, aviation technology and logistics."

 

[Stevienics]

Long been an advocate of bringing in experience from industry at an appropriate spine point and salary rate. The fact is though, that with a two track system., those that start at the bottom, AC or Plt Off or whatever, are so entrenched in their ways by the time they hit career maturity that they cannot see any other way of doing business.

Contemporary business and engineering practices just pass them by, and they baulk at any suggestion of improvement (and when they do accept the need, it's usually after a major trauma and even then it results in layers of overlapping incompetence and waste).

We are much like the NHS in that respect - well meaning people, very expensive toys and basking in our own greatness to a greater extent. We need the drip feed new blood from the outside world instead of this persistent inbreeding.

 

[vim_fuego]

At a major and leading defence behemoth where I used to work they have a 'young spunkers' scheme called 'Sigma'. If you enter with decent quals (not a Desmond I would suggest) and show promise you I think can apply to get on the scheme. Once accepted you are mentored, given the best training they can buy, given testing pieces of work to see how you cope and generally kicked up the rank structure. If you hack it you are going to do well at an early age...if you don't you get thrown back into the murk of the company to be laughed and pointed at and your tea will doubtless taste of 'hint of cheese' for years to come.

Why not have something similar for Airman?