Diversity

[Cornish_Pikey]

Not the gregarious dance troupe but a rather more complex situation, and one that is stirring debate/outrage all the time.

Compare these two news articles and see if you can make your mind up which terms to use now.

Greg Clarke resigns as FA chairman after apologising for saying 'coloured footballers'

Greg Clarke apologised for using the term high-profile coloured footballers; Clarke told Sky Sports News he is moving back into the business world having deeply appreciated my time in football; Clarke added his unacceptable words were a disservice to our game

www.skysports.com

'Red tape' getting in the way of diversity in the police service, top officer warns

Assistant chief constable Kerrin Wilson says cutting red tape is key to improving diversity in the police force.

news.sky.com

In the second report , is it not one of the the same terms being used but is now not offensive. I know the FA chief made some other outdated remarks as well that led to the outcome but how do us dinosaurs tell the difference?

I'm baffled.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Personally. I'm finding the usual "need something to be offended by" has been brought to the fore! So am I supposed to be offended when I am called "WHITE"? Or should I correct them and say I am a "LIGHTER COLOUR OF FLESH DUE TO LIVING IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE"?? But what happens if I decide on a particular day that I feel offended by the latter term and opt to be the first instead. Later I'm offended by that and opt for the 2nd.....AND......The world has gone PC MAD again.......... "It was all about the intent!!!" Blah Blah Blah... Just look at the latest non-controversy turned into an issue about a 3 fingered witch with a certain Hollywood actress having to apologise...WTF!!!!!

 

[Oldstacker]

I'm afraid i am getting lost by all this too... Is 'black' an acceptable term now or not? Can we have Black history month but not black players? Is it meant to be people of colour or coloured people? (personally the term i prefer is 'people'......)

I noticed on Twitter (hat hotbed of lunacy...) the other week that 'vulva people' was trending.... It was either the correct term for what used to be called women or was PC lunacy gone mad according to which side of the debate you were on regarding transgendering....

 

[busby1971]

Its a minefield out there, I wouldn't use the 'people of &&&&&' phrase as one of the arguments for not using the Clark wording is that we all have a colour, although in America use of that term is doubly wrong due to the way it was used in recent history to enforce segregation, which made his excuse of using it in America a bit weak.

You can use BAME but only as B.A.M.E. and not about an individual when you should use their preferred term.

I was reviewing a policy the other day, on Pregnancy health risks, and I took out all the female descriptors and left the generic 'staff member' in its place.

Whilst I find that the vast majority of people wont take offence there's always one or two who will default to victim hood and use a personal characteristic as a weapon when its totally inappropriate and irrelevant.

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

Its a minefield out there, I wouldn't use the 'people of &&&&&' phrase as one of the arguments for not using the Clark wording is that we all have a colour, although in America use of that term is doubly wrong due to the way it was used in recent history to enforce segregation, which made his excuse of using it in America a bit weak.

You can use BAME but only as B.A.M.E. and not about an individual when you should use their preferred term.

I was reviewing a policy the other day, on Pregnancy health risks, and I took out all the female descriptors and left the generic 'staff member' in its place.

Whilst I find that the vast majority of people wont take offence there's always one or two who will default to victim hood and use a personal characteristic as a weapon when its totally inappropriate and irrelevant.

I have some issues with this reply. (offended even, lol, I'll get over it however.)

I don't know what their preferred term is. So I might be wrong or right depending on the individual I am talking to (or about, as someone may be offended on their behalf).

As a Cornishman I have my own culture therefore am I BAME? Kind of says so in this official local council government pdf here - https://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/537/6381/6387/40828163633.pdf

Do Pregnancy Health Risks by default only apply to persons with XX chromosomes and doesn't apply to all "staff members"?

I come here to find mostly like minded worldly individuals that are not easily offended. It's definitely a baffling world.

 

[Tin basher]

I'm afraid i am getting lost by all this too... Is 'black' an acceptable term now or not? Can we have Black history month but not black players?

I too am getting lost in the morass of what is and what isn't acceptable to various groups in our society. We have the MOBO's (Music of black origin) awards but there are no MOWO's awards, a former colleague of mine worked in a place where you could not order a "black coffee" it had to ordered as a "coffee without milk" so as not offend someone somewhere. We do have black history month but should there also be Oriental history month, Asian history month and in a radical move even a white history month. It's linguistic and nuanced minefield out there with things gaining traction and trending all over the place on social media platforms I don't even use and I struggle not to make a perceived error in modern daily speech. I can't tell you what words my maternal grandmother used to use to describe grandad's favourite brown suit. Times change and the meaning of words change, gay once meant happy and having a great time (Flintstones theme song) now it means something else........... Fascist once meant the extreme right wing ideology of Hilter, Mussolini and Franco now the term is applied, by some, to anyone wearing police uniform or someone who's fag paper right of Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[Talk Wrench]

It's getting ridiculous and I'm happy to suggest that the majority of people, from all ages and from all backgrounds are now in a perpetual state of bewildered head shaking wondering where it's all going to stop.

From another perspective, overt racism was acceptable 40 years ago and today, rightfully so, it's no longer an acceptable practice. But, with a rapidly changing and "rabid socially aware" society continually microscoping out reasons to be offended in the pursuit of agenda bending social norms, there is confusion. This confusion has led to a prevailing lust for "new education", new human rights to be found and fought for and the creation of industrialised pencil crunching for supposedly clever people who feed off the Twitter mob and act accordingly by crunching more pencils.

This sorely detracts from the proper aims of diversity which should be about encouraging people to be willing participants in society instead of it railing against the majority who don't conform to minority agendas. Weirder territories await us.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

The saddest part of the FA chairman resigning was the next days article saying the FA had learnt a lesson and they would be now looking for a woman or a BAME chairman.
No best person for the job at hand, get signalling those virtues wherever it may lead.

 

[busby1971]

Problem is most organisations have D&I ‘experts‘ who treat it like a numbers game, lowering the standard or applying discrete discrimination, this results in productivity going down, costs going up and peer perception of the group being damaged.

Done correctly it’s all about identifying potential and then introducing programmes that bring this out, levelling the field.

People can bump their gums all day long about there being no white this or no white that, however, this reflects that those same people do not realise how biased life is in their favour.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

..... reflects that those same people do not realise how biased life is in their favour.

Biased by whom ?

 

[busby1971]

Biased by whom ?

Kinda proves the point.

 

[Tin basher]

people do not realise how biased life is in their favour.

Yes life can be biased in favour of some people. Compare for example me and Lewis Hamilton. One of us lives in the tax haven of Monaco and the other lives in red brick house in the English midlands, one has more millions in the bank than the other has thousands, one wakes up next to a super model one doesn’t, one drives a very nice Mercedes (probably) the other has an ancient Nissan Almera, one has a private jet to move around the globe and the other one used to spanner on jets. In the eyes of some, one of us benefits from privilege and breaking news, to them at least, it's not Lewis. Now if I had owned a bulldog called Roscoe instead of keeping goldfish life could be so different

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

Kinda proves the point.

No. No it doesn't.

Are you trying to infer I'm biased ?
Are you trying to infer I'm racist ?

Come on, say what you mean.

 

[Talk Wrench]

No. No it doesn't.

Are you trying to infer I'm biased ?
Are you trying to infer I'm racist ?

Come on, say what you mean.

I don't think Busby is inferring that at all.

The way I read it that we all have a natural bias that we are blissfully unaware of.

 

[busby1971]

I don't think Busby is inferring that at all.

The way I read it that we all have a natural bias that we are blissfully unaware of.

Thank you.

Although my comment was directed at society level biases, not that I’m suggesting they’re intentional.

 

[StickyFingers]

Labels drive a wedge between people.

All this stuff is massively divisive.

Having different labels for different groups/types the exact opposite of equality.

Either we're all equal or we are not.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

Thank you.

Although my comment was directed at society level biases, not that I’m suggesting they’re intentional.

You lot are like the Nazi party trying to pull the ordinary German into your guilt.

Me, I'm a train driver. I pick up who ever appears on the platform, regardless of race, colour, creed or any other demarcation. I train who ever appears in my cab regardless of race, colour, creed or any other demarcation.

It's you fuckers in your positions of power, you're a HR man. You might have " unintentional bias", but don't try and pull me into your guilt.

 

[busby1971]

Me, I'm a train driver. I pick up who ever appears on the platform, regardless of race, colour, creed or any other demarcation. I train who ever appears in my cab regardless of race, colour, creed or any other demarcation.

You say that like you have a choice about who you pick up and who you train.....

We all have biases, we’re all a product of our upbringings and life experiences which have made us the people we have become.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

You say that like you have a choice about who you pick up and who you train.....

I do (to a point).

We all have biases, we’re all a product of our upbringings and life experiences which have made us the people we have become.

And if you HR bods won't interview Obi Wankinobi because he's got an "African" name, don't come round stating that we're all culpable.

We're not. We all have personal responsibility. But don't for a second assume I share your guilt.

 

[Talk Wrench]

You lot are like the Nazi party trying to pull the ordinary German into your guilt.

Me, I'm a train driver. I pick up who ever appears on the platform, regardless of race, colour, creed or any other demarcation. I train who ever appears in my cab regardless of race, colour, creed or any other demarcation.

It's you fuckers in your positions of power, you're a HR man. You might have " unintentional bias", but don't try and pull me into your guilt.

I honestly don't think Busby was trying to pull you in to anything so perhaps you two will have to agree to disagree and plod on with this discussion without getting too riled.

Your tone however is more than likely echoed throughout the land as people are getting sick and tired of dragged into the whole diversity argument.