Degradation of the rank of Sergeant

[wobbly]

Is it me or is the rank of Sergeant been seriously degraded over the last 10 years?

The reason I say this is because over the years I've seen the rank go from a highly respected manager rank to basically a producer who is paid more to take extra responsibility. "When I was a lad" a SNCO stayed indoors doing paperwork, assessments and other management and it was frowned upon to don ones overalls.

Nowadays the SNCO is the one out in the ****ing rain at 2 am working on his own as there is no manpower to do the job. Now people that have worked alongside me over the years know that I'm not bitching at getting my overalls on as I am the first out the door with the toolkit in hand. However, it seems that all the manpower cuts and such like the rank has been so badly beaten about and taken for granted that its become just another rank with no status.

Even the civvy admin clerks get a parking space over at our Squadron while the serving, 23 years in the mob, SNCO has to park up on the main parade square to avoid the Warrants parking tickets

Discuss................

 

[pie sandwich]

Back when I was a yoof, My SGT got a bo11ocking from the WO because even though we were short of a few bods (still had enough to cope, remember them days) he went out put his overalls on and got his hands dirty, within about an hour he was explaining himself to the WO.

He was told that he is a SGT and his job is in the office not on the flight line.

 

[Warwick Hunt]

I can sympathise mate. But that's how the whole of the RAF is now - so few people and so much work and commitments means that everyone has to muck in and see jobs out to completion. It's not just at Sgt level either. I think ALL ranks in the management structure are having to deal with changes to what their status means, and not for the better either. I'll be honest in saying that if I was offered my 3rd, I would actually think twice before taking it. There doesn't seem to be any benefits, bar a pay jump, to taking promotion. Even membership of the Sgt's Mess is hardly an incentive. When I was a nipper, I used to be in awe of the SNCO's tales of drunken debauchery in the Mess, the mess balls, wearing Mess Kit with pride, etc. Nowadays, I think is it really worth it,a ll of the hassle that comes with having that 3rd stripe.

 

[Realist78]

I can sympathise mate. But that's how the whole of the RAF is now - so few people and so much work and commitments means that everyone has to muck in and see jobs out to completion. It's not just at Sgt level either. I think ALL ranks in the management structure are having to deal with changes to what their status means, and not for the better either. I'll be honest in saying that if I was offered my 3rd, I would actually think twice before taking it. There doesn't seem to be any benefits, bar a pay jump, to taking promotion. Even membership of the Sgt's Mess is hardly an incentive. When I was a nipper, I used to be in awe of the SNCO's tales of drunken debauchery in the Mess, the mess balls, wearing Mess Kit with pride, etc. Nowadays, I think is it really worth it,a ll of the hassle that comes with having that 3rd stripe.

Don't you mean it used to be like that. 2% is a fecking insult. That aside, I agree that all SNCO ranks are being degraded. Even my WO has been kept in the dark by the SEngO about issues (including manpower) that affect the Sqn. Not good!

 

[DE Scumbag]

I spent most shifts in overalls as a Sgt, probalby because we never had enough men to do the job. However as soon as enough men were available it was back in to do the paperwork for me.

This stems from the first bit of advice I was given when i got made up to Cpl. I was told by my chief that if i was working and J/T & SACs were sitting in the crewroom then I had fecked up, and he would be bollicking me! Great advice.

A further point is that I have noticed some Sgts now that are uncomfortable with the extra responsibility that comes, as the specialist who should be investigating the wiring diagrams etc to resolve the really hard snags. Now the just phone the IPT if it gets really tricky.

Same chief said to me when I asked him a question:

"Have you read the manual?"

When I replied "No"

He said "Well feck off and read the book! If you still dont understand then come back and we will discuss it further."

 

[billy bollox]

At both my last Sqn's (fast jets) there was the Trade TM C/T in his office with the other TM's doing their manpower and trade auth stuffs etc. Then there was the trade DESK Sgt, normally the nost experienced at that trade in blues who liased with Rects and divied out tasks. The rest of the Sgt's were producers!!! Thats (in my opinion) due to lack of re-scaling after multi-skilling. Downside is that there would be stack of indians and very few Sgt posts to get promoted into. Sometimes the best place was on crew-in's or on the job, less grief for just getting on with each job in hand.

 

[Skeedledee]

This is a tricky one! Is it not the case with corporals too?
I mean are they being left out of the managment chain intentionally or is just lack of recognition anymore.

what do you think

 

[Weebl]

This is a tricky one! Is it not the case with corporals too?
I mean are they being left out of the managment chain intentionally or is just lack of recognition anymore.

what do you think

Sgt's get treated like Cpl's, Cpl's get treated like JT's.

It isn't going to get better. Fortunately I have 2 and a bit years left until my 22 and can see no reason on earth to do any longer.

 

[pie sandwich]

This is a tricky one! Is it not the case with corporals too?
I mean are they being left out of the managment chain intentionally or is just lack of recognition anymore.

what do you think

Your not wrong mate,

I worked fecking hard to get my tapes, and when I got them I thought fooking awesome, you can imagine how I felt when I was treated the same way as the rest of the SACs at my new unit.

 

[freebass]

As a SNCO standing on the gate with an AC, nuff said .......

 

[The Masked Geek]

Until you see comissioned officers on the gate, they will never acknowledge the problem.

 

[Skeedledee]

As a SNCO standing on the gate with an AC, nuff said .......

please tell me you are not on guard as a snco! Right thats it where is that pvr link on jpa

 

[freebass]

please tell me you are not on guard as a snco! Right thats it where is that pvr link on jpa

I have done guard as a SNCO numerous times over the last few years, with an AC standing on the gate, what message does that send to trainees? Work hard, achieve promotion and still end up on the gate.......

 

[Skeedledee]

I have done guard as a SNCO numerous times over the last few years, with an AC standing on the gate, what message does that send to trainees? Work hard, achieve promotion and still end up on the gate.......

My sympathies, I totally understand, I get guard upto 6 times a year on a base which is supposed to be the gateway to the RAF, and they have only just put phase 2 trainees on now. Apparently they would have done it sooner but the powers that be didnt want another deepcut, and the trainees shooting themselves in the head 7 times. I think they call it duty of care! anyway back to SNCO issue, its a disgrace and you are quite right it is a great motivater for young thrusters to get promoted....not!!!!!

 

[MontyPlumbs]

I have done guard as a SNCO numerous times over the last few years, with an AC standing on the gate, what message does that send to trainees? Work hard, achieve promotion and still end up on the gate.......

Nail hit on head. Why is anyone going to stay in the RAF long term? I think I worked it out the other day, a top level snec is on £7, 620 (before tax) a year more than I am - for possibly 20 years longer service? Okay, assuming it's not all about pay (respect, status etc) but what status does a SNCO now have? They've been disenfranchised to such a degree that they might as well not exist in some places, they aren't allowed to make any decisions. How can a baby zob with 18 months experience be trusted over a SNCO with 20+ years of experience?

How about I just leave and in 20 years I'm sure I'll have gone up 7 grand in pay, with a lot less crap to deal with too I wager.

 

[freebass]

Or possiblly the final nail in the coffin for us that are thinking about jumping ship........

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Whilst not a case of getting overalls dirty - god forbid. They did not even fight for the SNCOs when they sorted out the NATO rank structure.

SNCO in the RAF, yet the US Military consider you a JNCO. Fcuking E-6 my arse.

 

[FOMz]

Do what always do SSH. I look at what rank the colonial concerend is, then tell them that I grade one above them. Easy.

 

[MyShineyAr$e]

Is it possible that the reason SNCOs are being treated less and less like managers may have something to do with the apparent inability of modern Cpls and Sgts to detach themselves from the crewroom.

I see it all to often, where NCOs try to be one of the lads, part of the crewroom culture, despite the fact that they are now promoted and have powers of discipline over the very people they used to work alongside. The Officer fraternity no doubt look on the situation with complete disdain and question whether they can trust their NCOs to keep stum if they are given delicate information, and whether they can trust them to actually manage their 'mates' and make the big unpopular decisions.

Forget all this crap about it being anyone elses fault. It boils down to the steady degredation of military ethos, discipline and culture.

As for the SNCO on the gate. I've never seen so many SNCOs on one camp, so its inevitable that they would end up stagging on. You get more respect in my opinion than the lazy cnut dep gd cdr who sits on his arse doing sweet fcuk all for 12 hours a day.

 

[billy bollox]

As for the SNCO on the gate. I've never seen so many SNCOs on one camp, so its inevitable that they would end up stagging on. You get more respect in my opinion than the lazy cnut dep gd cdr who sits on his arse doing sweet fcuk all for 12 hours a day.

Have you ever had to do that???....bloody tiring work...I spent a fortune on e-bay and amazon on family pressies one xmas!!!!
I'd rather be outside than managing 80+ weapons and the bodies who carry themDT_Xtremez_28:::